GIR II on Vacation Until August 1st
Between the poor internet access I have and the vino tinto that is included with lunch I am basically useless as a blogger while here in Europe.
I won´t be back in the states until late July, so my best guess is that blogging will resume August 1st.
So, everyone please stay safe and I will "see" you next month.
I won´t be back in the states until late July, so my best guess is that blogging will resume August 1st.
So, everyone please stay safe and I will "see" you next month.
posted by Brian at 10:25 AM
109 Comments:
Meanwhile..conspiracy theories anyone?
As in...I don't understand why timing devices were used (found) in the London bombings..if...as they are now saying..the men with the bombs were "sucide" bombers.
Why would a "time be set" for the bomber to blow themselves up? Seems to me the bombers would have wanted complete control as to when they set themselves off..as in picking the time and place for the most damage and allowing for maybe unforeseeable delays.
On the other hand a timer would have been used if you were going to leave your package on a crowded train and take yourself elsewhere.
The only way the two things make sense is if the bombers didn't know the bombs they were carrying were pre-set to go off while they were still carrying them.
So lets say the bomb maker told these fellars to leave the bombs at a certain spot.. but set the bombs so they would go off before the bombers could reach the appointed spot they were suppose to leave the bombs at..
Seems the perfect way to do a bombing would be to hire for lots of money some simple greedy or criminal types who don't know they are going to blow themselves up...end of trail, end of investigation.
I don't know...I am not Scotland Yard ..is it typical for sucide bombers to use timers?..I wish someone would explain this.
"Why would a "time be set" for the bomber to blow themselves up?"
Synchronized attacks.
"Seems to me the bombers would have wanted complete control as to when they set themselves off..as in picking the time and place for the most damage and allowing for maybe unforeseeable delays."
Not really. Setting off four explosions, killing a few dozen people, shutting down London's transport system, and creating panic and fear accomplishes the objective. In the end, the exact death toll isn't even relevant. How would you perceive this differently if it were 20 dead? 40 dead? 100 dead?
"On the other hand a timer would have been used if you were going to leave your package on a crowded train and take yourself elsewhere."
Where it could have been disarmed without harm. You also underestimate the lure of martyrdom to some depraved folk.
"So lets say the bomb maker told these fellars to leave the bombs at a certain spot.. but set the bombs so they would go off before the bombers could reach the appointed spot they were suppose to leave the bombs at.."
Apparently, one did. The scumbag couldn't make it to the Underground, so he settled for killing people on a bus.
"Seems the perfect way to do a bombing would be to hire for lots of money some simple greedy or criminal types who don't know they are going to blow themselves up...end of trail, end of investigation."
Or to indoctrinate a bunch of impressionable young British Muslims whose minds have been warped by hatred.
I think we damn well know what the real "gorilla in the room" is at this point.
On another topic entirely: Israel as a bolthole for American Jews when criminal investigations heat up:
http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/071305/abramoff.html
Why would the sucide bomber put his bomb package on the floor next to the train door?...if he intended to blow himself up why wouldn't he keep the bomb as close to him as possible so he would go immediately and not be left just wounded or maimed?...still makes no sense.
Were the bodies of the bombers found in a position that would indicate that they were standing next to or carrying the bomb and standing next to the door or sitting on the seat with their bomb when the bomb went off? ..has anyone seen anything on that?
Seems to me that this bombing was more of a "message" than anything else. Saying that the bombs were very "expert" and "organized" is also saying they could have planned to kill even more people if they wanted to.
"On Saturday, Andy Hayman, who is in charge of Scotland Yard's antiterrorism unit, announced that the four bombs set off in London each contained less than 10 pounds, or about five kilograms, of explosive material. Mr. Hayman said that investigators had determined by the shape of the twisted metal that the bombs had most likely been placed on the floor of the trains, near doorways. He said it was unclear whether the bomb on the bus was on the floor or on a seat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Huummm...maybe the guy who left the bomb on the bus was the only one who knew the bombs had timers...and knew his time was running out...
I also think maybe some experts are right that terror bombing have become or will now become a "franchise" type deal, where criminal seculars, so to speak, are hired to carry out strikes. This will complicate even more being able to pinpoint who is doing what bombings.
Oh well...we may never know but I don't totally agree with anonymous...I don't think we can "assume" anything any more...
What experts suspect that secular "franchise" criminals will take over?
You've seen the the real trend, Al Qaeda and like groups recruiting young muslims, often citizens or legal residents in the Western countries in which they try to kill people. Yet like the proverbial gorilla, you refuse to acknowledge it.
http://hillnews.com/thehill/
export/TheHill/News/
Frontpage/071305/abramoff.html
The other link on the Israeli defectors didn't work so well try this....I think the page cuts off the whole link sometimes.
I do wonder how these guys will support themselves in Israel? Did they get lots of money while working for Abramoff? doing a US crime and skipping to Israel seems to be trend among them.
And it is odd that they aren't even prior holders of israeli citizenship...if they had been planning "way beforee" to move to Israel you think they would have applied for their rightful citizenship before hand wouldn't you? I have a feeling a lot more money than what we know about eneded up in some questionable Israeli hands for some questionable purposes. The Israeli don't know the difference between fund raising and stealing...it's always just a matter of "misunderstandings".
Poor anonymous...of course I acknowledge that radical Muslims recruit terrorist...I also acknowledge that radical jews recruit terrorist...the radical black panthers recruited terrorist..all radicals recruit terrorist....
Repeat after me anonymous..."yes "r" I admit that Israelis and others besides Muslims have recruited terrorist..I admit that any and all radicals whether they be jews or muslims or anti abortionist or koolaide kings like religious sucider Jim Jones are capable of and have recruited terrorist"
See..now that wasn't so hard was it?
Muslims are not the only ones that have engaged in acts of terror throughout the ages. And in fact I don't associate mulisms with terrorists generally.
What is undoubtedly clear, however, is that the primary threat to western security is right now coming from Al Qaeda and like groups, and to start trying to pass it off as a conspiracy theory is denial in the worst form.
As for the Hill article, it makes clear that there are no Israeli "defectors" as you try to smear them. The couple had been planning on making aliya for a long time. You don't get your citizenship in a country by PLANNING to go there, you only get it if you actually go. The U.S. attorney has also said that the couple is not a subject of an investigation. The only question was, as possible witnesses, would this hinder law enforcement efforts. The U.S. atty hasn't even suggested that.
And of course, you make the unwarranted assumption that money is winding up in Israeli hands. But that's par for the course for you.
Speaking of terror bombers, the Irish IRA did a lot of civilian bombings on Londoners....pretty obvious that any group will use terrorist activities to accomplish their goals if they have to.
Once the question of the UK's control of Ireland was resolved the terrorism went away didn't it?
I think there is a clue there.
My unwarranted assumption that money is winding up in Israel is based on the fact that Abramoff's group had funneled money for arms purchase to Israeli settler terrorist groups....
That's already been testified to..seems reasonable to wonder if other money raised by them also went to Israeli related activities.
Do you really think the Muslims are the only ones raising money in the US to fund their radical groups?
You so silly anonymous...the time you waste on ZOA talking points you could put toward discovering the whole wide world of radicals and terrorist in general.
Here's a link to the Abramoff/settler movement connection--
http://www.forward.com/campaignconfidential/archives/001901.php
"A Tour of Jack Abramoff's E-Mail Account"
"Of all the new facts to emerge from yesterday's hearing, few are as strange as the details of Abramoff's connection to militant Israeli settlers. Newsweek reported this spring that Abramoff had funneled Indian money through his ostensibly charitable organization, The Capital Athletic Foundation, to pay for paramilitary equipment and training for Israeli settlers in the West Bank. The new batch of emails seem to confirm it. They show long exchanges between Abramoff and a West Bank settler named Schmuel Ben Zvi, a former high school friend of his from Hollywood, in which Abramoff discusses the procurement of military-use equipment for Ben Zvi and his fellow settlers."
Unfortunately, his support for Eretz Israel didn't quite extend to sending his own money. If only he'd had a chance to study longer at the feet of the great Rabbi Daniel Lapin!
"Once the question of the UK's control of Ireland was resolved the terrorism went away didn't it?"
In case you haven't noticed, UK control of Ireland is anything but resolved.
What did happen is that the U.S., brokering the Good Friday agreement, was able to convince enough people in good faith to come to the table to resolve issues politically. Even though matters not resolved, there is a political process.
There is also plenty of tension still in Northern Ireland, although the IRA and splinter groups don't plant bombs in the Underground anymore.
The U.S., with many others in the world community, tried to do a similar task in the Middle East. They demanded that Israel recognize the PLO, which was committed to Israel's destruction, and grant it authority, fund it, and train it.
Unfortunately, the process didn't quite work as cleanly, and in fact escalated terrorism. Nevertheless, there are some of us, myself included, who hold out hopes for an eventual political settlement, although in the end Israel will probably have to unilaterally draw the border and build the wall.
I am interested in learning about terror groups of all sorts, but I am particularly interested in the ones that actually are trying to damage the U.S. and its allies.
Well anonymous, The UK -Ir issue is resolved enough for bombings to have ceased..unfortunately if not for the IRA terrorist acts, the UK probably would not have had any incentive to sit down and start talking...
But we agree on something...! we are both interested in America's enemies.
But these days who do you think are America's allies?
Great Britian of course and who else?
U.S. allies? First and foremost would be what some in the intelligence community call our "cousins." This consists of England, Canada and Australia (the major Anglo-caucasian powers). These are the only that the U.S. DOES NOT SPY ON, period, and for that matter does not even develop assets in -- protocol is to direct any potential asset to that country's own intelligence network. We have spies everywhere else. That's just the way it works.
After that, we have the rest of NATO, to which we are bound to directly protect with our soldiers lives.
After that, there are certain countries that we have developed a very strong friendship with, perhaps for different reasons. In each case, however, I would say that they are open, free and democratic. Off the top of my head, I would place Mexico, Israel, South Korea, Taiwan and Japan in this category (some would claim Mexico is not that democratic, but as our next door neighbor I think we have a unique bond with them). The relationship in these countries is also solid enough so that it will not significantly change with the political climate.
Then there are the somewhat less savory "allies." These are not free societies, but we support them out of a more cynical realism. I would include Saudi Arabia and Pakistan as the most prominent of these. There are plenty others
So, r, who do you think our friends are?
From "r":
"The Israeli don't know the difference between fund raising and stealing...it's always just a matter of "misunderstandings"."
Priceless! "r" is not only a keen observer and commentator but also an expert writer. Thanks "r".
Thanks also to Brian (right now sipping wine along with some uranium dossier forgers in Italy), Arminius (a little quiet these summer days), David, Truthseeker, Joe, Will, Altheperson, Inheriting Syria, PeterAngelo, Patrick, The Discerner... anonymous commentators and readers and all the people who care about this issue.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050712/
pl_afp/mideastunrestblast
_050712222711
"Rumsfeld Says Iran Behind Israeli Bombing"
.heheheheh...wonder how he knows?
Excellent new article in the latest issue of "The Nation" on the AIPAC investigation:
"The Big Chill" by Laura Rozen
The Nation article, along with the New Yorker article a while back, are two of the most common sense articles I have seen on the whole AIPAC affair. This isn't about an Israeli "spy" but about a crackdown on what some people perceive as a too cozy relationship, combined with some people who are trying to use the legal system to fight what is really a political fight.
Rosen was crowding the plate, and he's just been knocked down by a brushback pitch. That's fair, as long as you're not trying to actually bean the guy.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050801&s=rozen
The Laura Rozen article...common sense?..tee hee...this is Rozens's second attempt to explain why there is nothing to implicate Israeli DC lobbist in the spying business.
When I read her first one last month, which says the same thing this one does (on no new information btw..which I gathered she is blaming on reporters not having carte blanche to retain secrets about national security breachers)) my first thought was..what has happened to The Nation? ..they don't usually do "puff pieces". Evidently some other Nation readers had the same question from the comments and several e mails I got from other regular readers. Don't know what is up with the Nation except that many have speculated in the comments section that the new Editor is not what the previous one was.
Rozen is not a particulary good propaganda writer...her typical tactic is to "state" and then "re-qualify" the information to "say nothing here , move on..just usual DC games".
But the AIPAC crowd is very,very worried..and so I think are even the "liberal" Jews...I noticed on Rozen's blog that she went into full AIPAC defense mode shortly after she and Josh Marshall did a joint report on the Italian yellow cake connection. Also now hyped on her blog is "doing something" about Iran with links to three new "Democratic" sites "thinking" of ways to fight wars. And a lot of on going bashing of "Eurabia" ( a far too Muslim Europe).
Everything I am seeing leads me to believe that even the dovish pro Israeli Jews are feeling threatened by the AIPAC investigation and by the deteriorating public opinion of Israel here in the US in general and are circling wagons. I think that hurts Jews as a whole because trying to wipe the grim off the zionist neo's just because they are Jewish will make the public associate even the formerly dovish pro Israelis with the zealots.
That might give the hard right Israeli Jews more ammo for their anti-semitic tactic by drawing in the "peace" Jews to defend their common ethnic thingy... but I think the Iraq- Israel-Lies- Spies- - Neo - Pentagon OSP can of worms is so outed now that Jack and Jill American won't hesitate to blame any and everyone for the 911 and Iraq foul ups....as we get worse and worse off and broker and broker in the terrier war...especially if we have another terrorist attack.
Another terrorist attack here in the US just might have the good citizens overturning all the woodpiles looking for rats.
Althought Americans have short attention spans....Patience is not one of our national virtues.
This old article in the Financial Times has points that still haunt..it is way too obvious that the FBI was hot on Israeli neos way before Franklin popped in the picture in August of 2004, a month before this was written and they already knew Franklin was at the Italy meeting with Ledeen. And before the suspected Chablia leak of our code to the Iranians. The FBI investigation was started two years before.
One of the reasons given for the investigation was that Condi requested it per Bush. And the story behind Bush's request was that he was going to meet with Afarat after having said he wouldn't and somehow it got leaked to the Israelis. I am inclined to think that may be the truth and Bush's office did request the original probe...knowing how Bush is about his secrets. Anyway the meeting with Afarat never came off because 911 struck before the meeting could be finalized. It also makes perfect sense that BushCo would sweep treason under the rug for the sake of the elections and go after them afterwards in various ways..hence the cooling off of US/Isr- Bush/Sharon relations in the executive suite and the departure of Feith and Wolfwitz and shuffling of several others.
I felt after Bush's 04 re-selection that his daddy's old guard had moved in and were routing the neos a bit...the only person they can't give up yet is Rumsfeld..and I wonder if that's not because he is so fucking ego-crazy they don't know what the hell he would say or let slip once out of the pentagon and to let him go would be too much an admission of defeat in Iraq.
Bush Sr. had no love for Israeli tactics and once held up their 'allowance' over the settlements. Bush's man Jim Baker also has no love for the Israelis. I also don't think Bush's Jr's born again religion would overcome his natural grudge holding personality.
Someone will go to jail as a shot over the bow of the Israelis...I doubt Franklin knows jack shit and the only reason they finally charged him is someone leaked that the FBI had turned Franklin and was using him....but if the FBI ever finds out who leaked the fact they had gotten onto Franklin then who knows what will happen....guess we will have to wait for an anonymous leaker.
FBI investigates suspected Pentagon security breaches
Guy Dinmore, Financial Times, September 7, 2004
An FBI investigation into suspected security breaches involving Pentagon officials and Israel is unlikely to result in prosecution of senior figures following pressure from the White House, according to people familiar with the case.
The investigation has highlighted concerns that a small group of neo-conservatives in the Pentagon not only may have divulged classified information to Israel, but also tried to mount intelligence and foreign policy operations without informing the State Department and Central Intelligence Agency.
Analysts said that although the neo-conservative proponents of regime change in Iraq and Iran had fallen out of favour with the White House, the presidential election in November still afforded them protection.
The White House denied allegations of a cover-up. A spokesman said there was full support for the investigation.
Sources familiar with the investigation said the White House and John Ashcroft, the US attorney-general, had intervened to apply the brakes. “The White House is leaning on the FBI. Some people in the FBI are very upset, they think Ashcroft is playing politics with this,” a former intelligence official said.
Paul McNulty, the Virginia district attorney in charge of the probe, had been told to slow down, the sources said. Asked for comment, Mr McNulty's office would only say that the investigation was continuing.
The investigations came to light last month, when officials confirmed reports that Lawrence Franklin, a mid-level analyst at the Pentagon, was the subject of an FBI inquiry into whether he passed classified information to an Israeli diplomat in Washington and to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac), an influential lobby group.
Aipac had been under investigation for more than two years, a senior White House official said. Aipac and Israel deny involvement in espionage.
Stephen Green, author and investigative reporter, said the FBI had interviewed him about several prominent neo-conservatives, including Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defence secretary, Douglas Feith, undersecretary for policy at the Pentagon, as well as former officials including Richard Perle, Stephen Bryen and Michael Ledeen.
The FBI is said to be looking back at investigations into alleged breaches of security involving Israel and current and former officials. None of the cases reached court. However, David Frum, former speechwriter for the president, said the investigators had found nothing serious and were about to drop the matter. He described what he called an anti-Israeli obsession among some parts of the administration who viewed Israel “not as the ally it is by law and treaty but as the source of all the trouble in the Middle East and the world”.
Mr Franklin, officials say, is suspected of providing Aipac with a draft national security presidential directive that proposed a tougher policy towards Iran.
In December 2001, Mr Franklin attended a meeting in Rome organised by Mr Ledeen with Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian arms dealer with ties to Israel, and Antonio Martino, Italy's defence minister, and Nicolo Pollari, head of Italian military intelligence.
This is just too funny..does it seems to you the government is worried about terrorist sneaking into the country? bogga, bogga...
JONES REACTS TO ARREST OF ILLEGAL ALIENS WORKING AT SEYMOUR JOHNSON AIR FORCE BASE
“These arrests serve as an important reminder of the urgent need to address the problem of illegal immigration in our country.”
Washington, D.C.- Yesterday, federal agents conducted a sting operation that resulted in the arrest of 48 illegal aliens employed as contract workers at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in Goldsboro, N.C.
The arrests follow similar investigations in recent months that have uncovered illegal workers at other military installations and facilities.
In June, federal agents arrested 26 illegal aliens at the Northrop Grumman shipyard in Pascagoula, Miss., where the Coast Guard’s new “national security cutters” and the Navy’s next-generation ships are being built.
In May, nine illegal aliens were arrested working at a Winston-Salem, N.C., facility that refits the P-3 Orion aircraft, the Navy’s primary anti-submarine patrol aircraft.
In March, federal agents arrested 57 illegal immigrants working at other sensitive facilities including a nuclear plant in Iowa,
and at Greensboro’s Piedmont-Triad International Airport and Boston’s Logan International Airport.
Here's a Brit who's asking questions about the London bombings similar to r's--
http://www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0348.html
(I got the tip for this from The Last Ditch.)
[b]Rove-gate: Who Leaked to the Leakers? This isn't about Rove[/b]:
Rove-gate: Who Leaked to the Leakers? This isn't about Karl Rove
'A Clean Break' JINSA/PNAC Neocons associated with AIPAC Neocon espionage at Pentagon
London Suicide Bombers: Suicide Bombers driven by policy as conveyed by research in new Pape Book
David...I don't know who Bowles is but he seems to be following every report that comes out..
Sherlock says seperate the possible from the impossible and then remove the improbables and what you have left is most likely the truth..I guess anything is possible.. but from their backgrounds, that these guys knew they going to blow themselves up seems highly improbable to me...
I can't remember what expert it was on the news discussing the theory that bombers were now, or would be into "hiring" criminals to do their work...but sounds like these young guys would be sort of lesser criminal types, if they were into selling some drugs, that would go for making some money on a less than up and up errand it seems to me.
The thing that distrubes me is that every time an incident of this type occurs..the police themselves as well as the press report conflicting information...you would think the professional investigators would hold off statements until they had verified the info...aren't the local yokel police always saying "no comment until we have more info" every time a bicycle gets stolen. I don't get all these offical reports that are then changed with no explaination as to why or how they made the wrong assumptions or statement to begin with..?
If it were the press putting out the wrong info wouldn't some offical (named) government spokesperson correct it at the next available press moment?
None of us outsiders can know what the real truth is but I agree that a lot of times people get a "gut " feeling when something doesn't make sense...
DOWNING STREET MEMO HEARING: US WENT TO WAR FOR ISRAEL
CNN Lou Dobbs poll on sending more billions to Israel
BTW, props to Truthseeker. I'm always running into important stuff you've put up at WarWithoutEnd. You're always working, and it's much appreciated.
I second David's praise of truthseeker links......
Truthseeker, do you have a link to a transcript that shows Lou Dobbs mention of the poll results? (or the poll itself, I saw but didn't save it)..do they publish a transcript?
I would like to fax a copy it to my "reformed" republican congressman....
thanks...r
Media Control Close-up:
http://tinyurl.com/8haaf
Excerpt:
"But as we found out, no market is too minor to manipulate when Jewish sensibilities are involved."
http://www.counterpunch.com/davis07162005.html
Three Israeli writers ( one with harrazt) posted a warning yesterday that Isr is about to mount a wipe out on Palestines in Gaza as soon as they remove the settlers...
sure enough, tonight on Reuters, (57 minute ago) Isr is announcing "plans" to mount a full bore attack on Gaza...I don't think it has started yet and may be a bluff..then again it may not..the Israelis are not known for their intelligence...so it may well be that they will once again give the finger to the international community and raze the Palestines as an excuse to halt giving up any more settlements..
stay tuned...
Missiles Headed for Israel Intercepted in Caracas
17:49 Jun 07, '05 / 29 Iyar 5765
(IsraelNN.com) Venezuela’s justice minister reported five missiles heading to Israel from Colombia were found in an international airport north of the capital.
The type or details of the missiles was not included in the report, but it was stated they could be attached to an F-16 or Mirage fighter jet. The missiles were found in a hanger of the German airline, Lufthansa. Arrests were made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
...this story disappeared quicker than a Mayfly and I haven't seen anything on it since...anyone here have any idea why Israel would be buying missiles from the Columbian military (according to Caracas authorities)...?
"sure enough, tonight on Reuters, (57 minute ago) Isr is announcing "plans" to mount a full bore attack on Gaza"
This is because there was a suicide bombing late last week, followed by a volley of missles fired into Israel by Hamas, including one which killed a civilian.
Once Israel pulls the settlers out of Gaza, then all considerations become purely military. If in fact the various terror groups in the strip used the now settler free Gaza as a base for terror attacks, I have no doubt that Sharon, or any sane Israeli leader, would call for action in Gaza.
Here's some Israelis who aren't as optimistic as you about the sanity of their leaders--
http://www.counterpunch.com/davis07162005.html
"A Warning from Israel"
"We believe that one primary, unstated motive for the determination of the government of the State of Israel to get the Jewish settlers of the Qatif (Katif) settlement block out of the Gaza Strip may be to keep them out of harm's way when the Israeli government and military possibly trigger an intensified mass attack on the approximately one and a half million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, of whom about half are 1948 Palestine refugees."
(Oops, I see r already linked to the Counterpunch article.)
Regarding the "warning' from the liberal Israelis....
I don't discount it, neither do I accept it as fact...it may one of Sharon's "warnings" or "bluffs" to pressure the Palestine leadership into cracking down more on Hamas ...and also to add more weight to their objection to Palestine including Hamas as a political party in their government.
But as long as the right wing zionist are in control in Israel I also do not put anything past them when it comes to "creating" or adding "provocations" to the conflict as a way to gain more leverage and concessions from the Palestines and the US in the final settlement.
The announcement last week by Israel that they were going to iclude some Palestine lands in the new wall around Jerusalem and cut off some 55,000 Palestines is typical of the type of thing that would set off a terroist response by Hamas...and Sharon knows that...just like he knew in 2001 that his visit to the temple mount would set off a violent response
from Palestine.
In other words the game continues...if Hamas was smart they would lay low now that world sympathy is with Palestine. So Hamas is truely a crackpot terrorist group and/or stupid and should be taken out, or they are part of the Sharon game.
The only place I am in favor of having troops in the mid east is in the Pal/Isr deal...along with NATO troops. Oddly enough or not oddly enough Palestine has requested NATO and /or US peacekeeper forces many times from the UN...Israel has opposed it and the US has vetoed it in the UN every time.
So naturally you wonder who doesn't want who to see what and who is willing to give up what for peace.
To put Israel in charge of their own withdrawal and let them have say so over the terrorties they withdrawl from even afterwards and also retain the right to re-enter those terrorities at any time doesn't sound like a real withdrawal to me.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18303603.htm
Article on one of the London bombers having visited Israel.
Says he may or may not have been involved in planning an Israeli sucide bombing.
One person involved in the Israeli bombing ended up found drown in the sea.
What again is very interesting is Sharon's new repeated instructions for pro Israelis NOT to link terrorist bombings around the world to Isr/Pal ...especially after they worked so hard to link their plight to the US's and global terror in general after 911.
Evidently they feel terror is not so much generating support for Israel as putting them in the spotlight.
"Oddly enough or not oddly enough Palestine has requested NATO and /or US peacekeeper forces many times from the UN...Israel has opposed it and the US has vetoed it in the UN every time.
So naturally you wonder who doesn't want who to see what and who is willing to give up what for peace."
UN peacekeeping forces in the region have a mixed record. It was UN troops that filmed the Hezbollah kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. The UN denied that it had the tape, then stonewalled Israel long enough until the Israeli troops were dead.
And of course, it was Nasser who kicked the UN peacekeeping forces out of the region in 1967, one of the many Arab provocations that set off the six day war.
Peacekeeping troops do a decent enough job when there is a peace to keep. They are not very good at peace MAKING. In this case, peacekeepers would not do what has to be done, which is to root out and dismantle the various Palestinian militant groups.
Ultimately, Israel doesn't want peacekeepers because Israel isn't going to entrust its defense to others. This is particularly true in the case of the UN, which has in recent history demonstrated an outright hostility to Israel.
Dear,dear anonymous..
I know, everyone hates the innocent Israelis who have never done anything to anyone and everyone in the world from the UN to France to the Methodist choir in Lizard Lick conspires against them and wants to drive them into the sea......right?
You so funny.
This is slightly off topic but so funny I thought I would post something as entertainment while the gorilla is gone.
Juan Cole at Informed Comment
Monday, July 18, 2005
Christian Terrorist Rudolph Sentenced
What the Rightwing Press Will not Say
Notorious Christian terrorist Eric Rudolph was sentenced to two life terms on Monday. The one-time fugitive had carried out four bombings that terrorized the southeastern areas of the United States. Among his crimes were the blowing up of an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, which killed a policeman, and a bombing of the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta, Georgia.
As his sister-in-law made clear, Rudolph is driven by the ideology of the "Christian Identity" hate group. Terry Nichols of the Oklahoma City bombing was likewise connected to Christian identity and their "Elohim City".
Of course, you won't see the headline above in American newspapers, even though any Muslim who acts as Rudolph did would be called an "Islamic terrorist" (a particularly objectionable term because "Islamic" means "having to do with the Muslim faith). It is like talking about "terrorism rooted in Christianity."
Other things you won't see in the American press about this story (satire alert):
Thomas Friedman will not write an op-ed for the New York Times about what is wrong with white southern Christian males that they keep producing these terrorists. He will also not ask why Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are not denouncing Eric Rudolph every day at the top of their lungs.
No reporter will interview frightened Iraqis about their fears at hearing that there are 138,000 armed Christians in their country belonging to the same faith as the bomber, Rudolph, some of them from his stomping grounds of Florida and North Carolina.
Daniel Pipes will not write a column for the New York Post suggesting that white southern Christians be put in internment camps until it can be determined why they keep producing terrorists and antisemites.
George W. Bush will not issue a statement that "Christianity is a religion of peace and we will not allow the Eric Rudolphs to hijack it for their murderous purposes."
Frank Gaffney will not write a column for the Washington Post castigating the Republican Party for appeasement in surrendering to the terrorist threats of radical Christians, by now opposing reproductive rights.
Max Boot will not point out that if the United States could only keep the Philippines in the early twentieth century by killing 400,000 Filipinos, than that was what needed to be done, and if the US can only beat back radical Christians by killing 400,000 of them, then that may just be necessary.
Pat Buchanan will not write a column blasting King George III for having promoted the illegal immigration into the American south of criminal elements, whose maladjusted descendants are still making trouble.
This is new?...they could have hired me for a lot less to tell them that occupying someone's else land or not observing the customs of the place you are visiting is rude and will get you asked to leave or maybe thrown out if you blow into town acting like you own the place and start telling the locals what to do.....where I am from we still call northerners yankees...in a friendly way of course...if they stay long enough we "radicalize" them by feeding them grits and mint juileps...pretty soon they are fat and happy and start singing Way down South in the Heart of Dixie....LOL
Amazing though that the Israelis were in on this study, surely they knew this already.
War radicalized most, probes find
By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | July 17, 2005
WASHINGTON -- New investigations by the Saudi Arabian government and an Israeli think tank -- both of which painstakingly analyzed the backgrounds and motivations of hundreds of foreigners entering Iraq to fight the United States -- have found that the vast majority of these foreign fighters are not former terrorists and became radicalized by the war itself.
The studies giving the most detailed picture available of foreign fighters, cast serious doubt on President Bush's claim that those responsible for some of the worst violence are terrorists who seized on the opportunity to make Iraq the ''central front".
However, interrogations of nearly 300 Saudis captured while trying to sneak into Iraq and case studies of more than three dozen others who blew themselves up in suicide attacks show that most were heeding the calls from clerics and activists to drive infidels out of Arab land, according to a study by Saudi investigator Nawaf Obaid, a US-trained analyst who was commissioned by the Saudi government and given access to Saudi officials and intelligence.
A separate Israeli analysis of 154 foreign fighters compiled by a leading terrorism researcher found that despite the presence of some senior Al Qaeda operatives who are organizing the volunteers, ''the vast majority of [non-Iraqi] Arabs killed in Iraq have never taken part in any terrorist activity prior to their arrival in Iraq."
American intelligence officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, and terrorism specialists paint a similar portrait of the suicide bombers wreaking havoc in Iraq: Prior to the Iraq war, they were not Islamic extremists seeking to attack the United States, as Al Qaeda did four years ago, but are part of a new generation of terrorists responding to calls to defend their fellow Muslims from ''crusaders" and ''infidels."
more at.....
http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2005/07/17/study_cites_seeds_of_terror_in_iraq/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/
spl/hi/pop_ups/05/uk_enl
_1121560562/html/1.stm
Good picture of all the bombers together going into the tube...
One is carrying a plastic grocery bag or plastic bag like you would get from a store..was he carrying his lunch or something he bought for his trip?
What would you carry in a plastic bag on the way to kill yourself?
Beats me. I think the sucide theory is falling apart.
"I know, everyone hates the innocent Israelis who have never done anything to anyone and everyone in the world from the UN to France to the Methodist choir in Lizard Lick conspires against them and wants to drive them into the sea......right?"
Wrong. But the UN clearly has an institutional bias against Israel, which disqualifies it as a credible mediator, particularly when it comes to putting troops on the ground.
In the meantime, please do continue to amuse with your insistance that there is a conspiracy behind the London bombings.
Of course, there WAS a conspiracy. Islamofacist terrorism conspired to send four deranged young men to blow themselves up and kill people on the London underground.
Interesting story from The Hill that former Jack Abramoff associates Sam Hook and Shana Tesler have decamped permanently to Israel. Abramoff is a lobbyist under Justice Department criminal investigation. More emigrants to follow?
http://hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/071305/abramoff.html
A Foreign Policy for Americans (1951)
Author Info:
Robert Alphonso Taft
09/08/1889-07/31/1953
Fundamentally, I believe the ultimate purpose of our foreign policy must be to protect the liberty of the people of the United States. The American Revolution was fought to establish a nation "conceived in liberty." That liberty has been defended in many wars since that day. That liberty has enabled our people to increase steadily their material welfare and their spiritual freedom. To achieve that liberty we have gone to war, and to protect it we would go to war again . . .
Only second to liberty is the maintenance of peace. . . . Our traditional policy of neutrality and non-interference with other nations was based on the principle that this policy was the best way to avoid disputes with other nations and to maintain the liberty of this country without war. From the days of George Washington that has been the policy of the United States. It has never been isolationism; but it has always avoided alliances and interference in foreign quarrels as a preventive against possible war, and it has always opposed any commitment by the United States, in advance, to take any military action outside of our territory. It would leave us free to interfere or not according to whether we consider the case of sufficiently vital interest to the liberty of this country. It was the policy of the free hand.
From anonymous
"A Foreign Policy for Americans (1951)"
That is a good summary of what our foreign policy should be and was until recent decades.
Especially the part about being neutral.
I do think though that the US has a role in intervention in humanitarian causes...and it should be done by building up the UN and NATO as intervention forces, as well as peace keeping forces, where the weight of the world acts as one unified force against agression and violence and nuclear threats and as a mediator in disputes..instead of tearing down and weakening the UN. ..while that is not a popular idea among most Americans, the reality is that we now have a interdependent global world from which there is no turning back and we need some global rules or we are gonna have chronic chaos which will eventually weaken civilized states it is aimed at and give the edge to rouge actors around the world.
yoo hoo..anonymous dear friend..
One of us is paranoid..let's see who that is...
You "insist" that Islam fanatics were definitely responsible for the London bombs and deliberately blew themselves up even though the investigation hasn't been completed and you won't accept any other theory or possibility...your mind is already made up.
I "suggest" that the bombers didn't know they were going to kill themselves and were tricked into it and they could have been hired by anyone for money or recruited by anyone..it could have been ALQ, it could have been Isr or any other state or group who wants to keep the terrier war going full steam or a group who thinks bombings will stop the terrier war...in other words I don't know, but I am willing to consider all the possibilities.
I know that ALQ and associates are fully capable of the London bombing and have reason to do it.
I also include Isr in the possibilities only because they also have a overriding interest in the terriers war and because they have a proven history of mutiple acts of bombings and pinning the evidence on another group. I don't think all things considered, that it is unreasonable to leave the question open until and if ever, the real story is known.
Oh brother!..who is going to save the US from the evangelicals and congress...are these crazies or what? Note that one "leader" Kay Authur, is the fiery female preacher who declared last year that her "first loyalty" was to Israel if it ever came to a choice between the US and Israel. This is what happens when you mix religion with government.
"On the eve of Gaza disengagement, reporter Rebecca Sinderbrand has a week of dispatches over at Slate on the American Christian evangelicals teaming up with an Israeli MP opposed to Gaza withdrawal, Israeli tourism minister Benny Elon:
Elon, along with about a dozen other elected officials spanning the political spectrum, is a member of the Knesset's Christian Allies Caucus. In less than a year, the caucus—the only Israeli government body whose business is conducted entirely in English—has become an institution here...So far this year, the government has handed evangelicals their own plot of land near the Sea of Galilee, started a special outreach program to shore up support for Israel in African-American churches, and planned the committee's first stateside conference for American sympathizers in Fort Worth this September...
But Elon has spent years trying to marshal evangelical influence on thorny foreign-policy questions. His new book includes a pledge for believers to sign in support of Jewish control of Judea and Samaria—what he calls the "heartland of Israel." Evangelical heavyweights like Kay Arthur and Glenn Plummer signed the pledge earlier this year, when Elon made the rounds at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. A flood of believers followed their lead. "We have thousands of signatures already. We want millions. Then a congressional bill," says Elon.
This sort of vision has been a right-wing dream here for years...Meanwhile, Elon, like many anti-disengagement organizers here, is already starting to look past Aug. 17, the day the government starts evicting the remaining Gaza settlers. "The people I speak with in American churches, they are all against the withdrawal. They don't understand it. So, I'm trying to build, with patience, because we'll be back. In six or seven years, we'll be in Samaria again. … I don't think this is the end."
If he can maintain his current level of stateside success, says Elon, "Within two years, at least 200 representatives in America will understand that, for their constituents, Israel's claim to Judea and Samaria is non-negotiable. The Israeli prime minister will be able to visit America knowing that half of Congress understands this issue from our perspective. That is how I define success." ...
read the whole thing at
http://slate.com/id/2123022/entry/
0/
"Oh brother!..who is going to save the US from the evangelicals and congress...are these crazies or what?"
Yes, they are crazies.
And they have lost. Gaza will be empty of settlements in a month.
Withdrawing from the West Bank will be tougher, but not because of these people. It's a tougher sell to the Israeli mainstream.
I read somehwere that Gaza was really of no value to the zionist expansion, and that it was a useful concession to get the lands they really want. Jerusalem, etc. etc.
The funny thing about many of the Christian Zionsists is that they are so arrogant to want to accelerate and be part of their end-time prophecies. They remind me of a death cult.
Hopefully they will all eat applesauce and take the next comet to another solar system.
"I read somehwere that Gaza was really of no value to the zionist expansion, and that it was a useful concession to get the lands they really want. Jerusalem, etc. etc."
I'm not sure what you mean by "value to the Zionist expansion."
But it is fair to say that Jerusalem and several sites in the West Bank have a significantly more prominent role in Jewish history and religion than does anyone in Gaza.
One can draw a historical connection to Gaza, but it doesn't resonante with anyone except the "not an inch" crowd. And the not an inch crowd has lost.
As a practical matter, Israelis are a lot more tied to where they are today. There are some "hot spots" that will be tough to pull out of, most notably Hebron. But generally it is more a matter of practicality at this point.
Hi David and 'r',
Just checked back in and saw your kind words above which were very much appreciated!:-) I just noticed that the following message thread has over 22,000 views which is pretty good in such a short time after posting it:
US Plans Nuclear Attack on Iran
Just made the following one as well:
Syrian troops 'fired on by US forces'
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Just noticed that the above link on the Syrian troops having been fired on by US troops isn't going through.. Trying again:
Syrian troops 'fired on by US forces'
It was very surprising that it took my telephone call to Congressman Conyers on C-SPAN's 'Washington Journal' yesterday (can watch/listen to the segment with Congressman Conyers via the link at the following URL) to let him know about James Bamford's 'A Pretext for War' book and the war for Israel agenda conveyed in it (I was able to also mention that the USA was tragically attacked at the World Trade Center in 1993 and then again on 9/11 because of US support for Israel which is conveyed in 'A Pretext for War' as well):
http://www.c-span.org/videoarchives.asp?CatCodePairs=Series,WJE&ArchiveDays=30
Congressman Conyers responded by saying that he hadn't heard about the USA having been attacked because of US support of Israel as he also mentioned that he hadn't heard of Bamford's 'A Pretext for War' book either (but he had after my call as he made a note of it).
David and 'r',
The transcript of the Lou Dobbs broadcast on sending additional BILLIONS to Israel for Gaza is now showning in the first post at the following URL:
Lou Dobbs' poll on sending additional BILLIONS to Israel as US states go broke
to Truthseeker...thanks for the link I have copied and am faxing with letter to my congressman.
to Anonymous....good job on c-span!..a great way to let lots of people hear it. Do you think Conyers didn't know though?...After what was brought up at the DSM's hearing I bet he knows, he just doesn't want stir the waters and have it intefer with the focus on the DSM like it did when the WP threw a hissy fit over the mention of Isr when Conyers held his first hearing. LOL..if you/we/everyone keeps saying it out loud though, the congresscriters will have to deal with it sooner or later. Way to go!
Conyers was just being polite. Everyone knows that Bamford has no credibility on the issue of Israel.
The Mossad is certainly on a bombing spree. First London twice, and then a Sinai town.
I wonder what is happening behind the scenes.
It's all so familiar....but of course it's anti-semitic to say Israelis do bombings and blame the Arabs...are they still up to their tricks or have the Arabs started imitating them? Does a lepord change it's spots? Most likely the Arabs and the Israelis are both doing bombings..and the rest of the world is caught in this feud.
The Lavon Affair
In 1954, Israeli agents working in Egypt planted bombs in several buildings, including a United States diplomatic facility, and left evidence behind implicating Arabs as the culprits. The ruse would have worked, had not one of the bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to capture and identify one of the bombers, which in turn led to the round up of an Israeli spy ring. Some of the spies were from Israel, while others were recruited fro the local Jewish population. Israel responded to the scandal with claims in the media that there was no spy ring, that it was all a hoax perpetrated by "anti-Semites". But as the public trial progressed, it was evidence that Israel had indeed been behind the bombing. Eventually, Israeli's Defense Minister Pinhas Lavon was brought down by the scandal, although it appears that he was himself the victim of a frame-up by the real authors of the bombing project, code named "Operation Susannah
The King David Hotel
On July 22, 1946, members of the Jewish underground military organization Irgun Tsvai-Leumi in the British Mandate of Palestine exploded a bomb at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. The hotel was the base for the British Secretariat, the military command and a branch of the Criminal Investigation Division (police). 91 people were killed, most of them civilians: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 other. Around 45 people were injured.
The attack was initially ordered by David Ben Gurion, who was in the United States, but he later changed his mind and ordered the bombing to be cancelled. But Menachem Begin, the head of Irgun, went ahead anyway. Both Ben Gurion and Begin would later become Israeli Prime Ministers. The attack was commanded by Yosef Avni and Yisrael Levi.
The attack on the hotel was the largest attack against the British in the history of the Mandate.
A warning message was delivered to the telephone operator of the King David Hotel before the attack, and also delivered to the French consulate and the Palestine Post newspaper. According to Irgun sources, the message read "I am speaking on behalf of the Hebrew underground. We have placed an explosive device in the hotel. Evacuate it at once - you have been warned."
Irgun representatives have always claimed that the warning was given well in advance so that adequate time was available to evacuate the hotel. The British authorities denied for many years that there had been a warning at all, but the leaking of the secret police report on the bombing during the 1970s proved that a warning had indeed been received. However, the report claimed that the warning was only just being delivered to the British officer in charge as the bomb went off.
'Out of Iraq' teach-in to mark aniversary of Downing Street Memo
http://www.kpfk.org/index.php?option=com_events&task=view_detail&agid=233&year=2005&month=07&day=23&Itemid=63
If the above link doesn't go through, access www.kpfk.org to access it.
The above referenced teach-in airs on KPFK (Pacifica radio) in Los Angeles and can be listened to via the live broadcast link at the above URL and in the left margin of www.kpfk.org as well (it airs at 12 Noon on the west coast and at 3 PM on the east coast of the USA today at at 7 PM GMT).
http://nomorewarforisrael.blogspot.com
You can bank on the fact that the 'A Clean Break' (war for Israel) agenda will be addressed there!:-)
If it wern't for the tradegy of all the dead this would be a comedy of errors. Since this terrier war began, it has been one idiot foul up after another.
AP...
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET July 23, 2005
LONDON - The man officers killed in a dramatic subway shooting apparently had nothing to do with a series of bombing attacks on London's transit system, police said Saturday, calling it a "tragedy" and expressing their regret.
Police had pursued the man and shot him point-blank Friday in front of horrified passengers on a train at the Stockwell station in south London, later saying he was "directly linked" to the attempted bombings the previous day.
But on Saturday, a spokesman for Metropolitan Police said "the man was unconnected to the incidents of Thursday" in which bombs placed on three subway cars and a double-decker bus failed to detonate properly, and was "probably unconnected" to the July 7 suicide bombings that killed 56, including the bombers.
"He's not believed to be connected in any way to any of the London bombings," a police source said on condition he not be identified.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"It's all so familiar....but of course it's anti-semitic to say Israelis do bombings and blame the Arabs"
Yes, so familiar that you have to go back decades to find an example.
The only case where Israelis planted bombs and blamed arabs was the Lavon affair (a true low point in Israeli history). In the other example, the Irgun didn't blame anyone. They were at war with the British, and claimed responsibility for the King David bombing.
Gawd!...way to go Israel..insult the Pope. Sounds like the entire Israeli government is having a collective nervous breakdown.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050725/D8BILDF00.html
Israel Angry at Pope Over Terror Comments
Jul 25, 5:16 PM (ET)
By VICTOR L. SIMPSON
VATICAN CITY (AP) - Pope Benedict XVI faced the first major conflict of his 3-month-old papacy when Israel summoned the Vatican envoy Monday to express outrage that the pope "deliberately failed" to condemn terrorist attacks against Israelis.
The pontiff also said in separate comments Monday that he didn't see any anti-Christian motive in recent attacks blamed on Muslim extremists and urged dialogue with the best elements of Islam
The pope deliberately failed to condemn the terrible terror attack that occurred in Israel last week," a Foreign Ministry statement issued in Jerusalem said
Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls, accompanying Benedict on vacation, issued a one-line statement saying the papal envoy "has already replied to the Israeli government." It did not elaborate.
Later, Navarro-Valls released a second statement in which he noted that Benedict's words expressly referred to terror attacks in "recent days."
"It's surprising that one would have wanted to take the opportunity to distort the intentions of the Holy Father," Navarro-Valls said in the statement. "Obviously the other week's grave attack in Netanya referred to by Israel falls under the general and unreserved condemnation of terrorism."
Dear anonymous..
I bring up Israel's past MO because it's their MO...
And what has changed?
Make Israel's enemies everyone else's enemy...to wit..we should hate Old Europe because it is too Muslim and pro Palestine...we should ditch the UN because it is biased against Israel...we should curtail and monitor Mid Eastern studies in our colleges because it's too favorable to Islam and Arabs...etc,etc...
I am not so dumb as to think that our ALQ problem is TOTALLY because of US support for Isr but it is a major part along with our being "over there" to begin with..
but.....
I am telling you as an observer who doesn't have any hatred or any favortism toward Israel, and who recongizes the decent Israelis accomplishments along with the totaly insane protion of the destructive Israelis that...Isr will not continue to exist if it or it's leadership doesn't get some collective mental therapy.
Not only are American taxpayers tired of it, the entire world is tired of Israel being a special case.
I think the Pope's reply in the above post probably says it all.
BTW, more on the Lavon affair--
Israel's targets were specifically theaters and other buildings where the English-speaking community gathered. (Like today, the goal was to embroil America in a war with the Arab world.)
Amazingly enough, just a few months ago Israel quietly HONORED the Egyptian Jews who commited these crimes of 50 years ago--
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/honor.html
(Perhaps it was the Jonathan Pollard Award they were give, or maybe the Star of Marc Rich, or maybe the Robert Maxwell Cross, I'm not sure :) )
"I bring up Israel's past MO because it's their MO...
And what has changed?"
Their MO.
I can find no recent news on the AIPAC investigation ..has anyone seen any?
Two other things occured this week that are interesting though:
On the Palestine Aid Bill in congress.. 100 congressmen voted against putting more restrictions on the aid. That IS a trend! The zionist had lobbied hard to put restrictions on the aid in order to hamper Palestine efforts and authority. Although it passed, that 100 voted against it shows the zealots and their lobbies are losing some ground in congress.
And the Pentagon-Isr love affair is still on the rocks...over the China arms sales. And I think there must be a few other indescretions on Isr's part as well for the Pentagon to be so upset.
It boggles the mind that we just gave them their yearly allowance of billions in light of their constant ruling breaking on the use of the aid and their constant deceptions in arms sales.
Now that the China "threat" is on the congressional agenda it is going to be interesting to see how the pro-Israeli loyalist reveal themselves when it comes to Isr's arms industry GNP vr. US security interest...
Read all about it......
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/605342.html
"I can find no recent news on the AIPAC investigation ..has anyone seen any?"
Just keep doing your all-important sleuthing, Ms. Clousseau.
"On the Palestine Aid Bill in congress.. 100 congressmen voted against putting more restrictions on the aid. That IS a trend! The zionist had lobbied hard to put restrictions on the aid in order to hamper Palestine efforts and authority. Although it passed, that 100 voted against it shows the zealots and their lobbies are losing some ground in congress."
Way to completely misanalyze the subject, r.
The various pro-Israel groups supported the Palestinian Authority aid. There were some Congressman, notably Tom DeLay, who wanted to kill it alltogether. AIPAC lobbied to send the bill through with restrictions as a compromise, not because they actually wanted the restrictions.
On the other hand, I am glad to see that you don't think the U.S. should dictate how aid recipients use their money? Now will you be a dear and get on the phone to your Congressman and demand that the Israelis be allowed to use their aid for something other than purchasing American manufactured weapons?
Recent news on the AIPAC investigation--
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/605551.html
FBI SEEKS TO PROBE SENIOR ISRAELI DIPLOMAT IN PENTAGON SPY CASE
"The demand to investigate Gilon's role and possibly also that of other Israeli representatives is the clearest indication that the Americans believe Israel is involved in the Franklin case, which until now has been presented as an internal American affair."
BTW, anonymous's explanation of the restrictions on U.S. aid to Palestine is misleading. The restrictions are being exploited by Israel, as explained here where they are found diverting dollars intended for the Palestinians to the construction of their wall--
http://www.rescuemideastpolicy.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=101&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
ISRAELIS WILL USE U.S. TAX DOLLARS ON ILLEGAL BORDERS
"The fact that US aid given to Israel is not allowed to be spent outside Israel -- i.e. in the West Bank or Gaza -- is probably the motivation why the $50 million for the terminals was carved out of Palestinian aid allotment."
Actually it is david that is being misleading. The aid to Israel is, as noted above, spent on American made weapons.
The article cited by David points out that as part of the Palestinian aid package, additional aid was also provided to Israel to fortify checkpoints, as well as invest in technology that will speed up any delays at such checkpoints. Both of those are, of course, good things.
No, actually you made this part up--
" ... additional aid was also provided to Israel to fortify checkpoints ... "
Becuase our craven Congress gave Israel the power to disburse the aid intended for the Palestinians, Israel took some of it and spent it on its own wall. There is nothing "additional" about it. What was supposed to be Palestinian aid became Israeli aid. You may regard this as a good thing, but I'm fairly confident no Palestinian does.
David, you really do not know what you are talking about. Congress did not give Israel the right to disburse the Palestinian aid. The restrictions on the money will in fact be similar to prior restrictions, where the money is distributed by USAID, rather than simply dropping a check into the black hole known as the PNA.
What Congress did do was, as part of that aid package, was to include a provision that certain aid would be to fortify the various security checkpoints, which are misleadingly called "the apartheid wall." The purpose is to install new technology to make them more effective and efficient.
I like it when Palestinian suicide bombers are kept out of Israel. And I like it when other Palestinians are allowed to promptly pass through checkpoints to get to work, school, etc. I am sure there are some Palestinians who don't like it -- specifically, the terrorists.
http://www.forward.com/articles/3162
AID PACKAGE SIDESTEPS P.A.
"Adding to the frustration of those backing the aid was the decision by Congress to ban direct aid to the P.A."
"The legislation clearly states that none of the money should be spent on "direct financial support for the Palestinian Authority," though the bill permits Bush to waive the restriction for national security purposes."
"Only about $140 million of the $200 million requested by the Bush administration will end up going to development projects in Gaza and the West Bank."
"And, in a development that startled many Capitol Hill observers, $2 million is earmarked for Hadassah, the Women's Zionist Organization of America ... ."
The article goes on to explain that the gift to Hadassah is the work of Jewish-American congressman Eric Cantor. Who would have guessed?
BTW, you haven't said "anti-semitism" so far today. (Just don't want you to fall behind.)
David is right on the Palestine aid anonymous and you are wrong....in fact I think we discussed some of this in a prior thread...
As for the 100 congressmen who voted against restricting Palestine aid, there were several "Liberal" Jewish congressmen in that group...
But the frigging nutcase pro Israeli Jewish and holy roller politicans unfortunately outnumber the realist...but we will get them out of our government sooner or later...it's only a matter of time till that blowback starts blowing..
David..that Haaretz article is verrrrrrryy interesting!
It seems to me the FBI is on to something bigger than we know yet...cetainly more than just the info Franklin passed.
We will see if the CIA gets BushCo and if the FBI gets the Israelis lobbist. That's the "other war" going on right now.
For some reason Bush is letting them have their head on this investigation...even thought several Israeli loyal congressmen have tried to stop it every way they can....another reason I think there is more "there".
'JINSA John' Bolton provided untruthful information
Do a search for JINSA at www.google.com
"David is right on the Palestine aid anonymous and you are wrong"
If you want to live in Bizarro world, fine with me. But the facts remain.
1) Israel is not entrusted with dispensing PA aid.
2) The aid was given to Israel so that it can improve and ease the checkpoints.
How this is "stealing Palestinian aid" is beyond me. Unless you think that Palestinians have some sort of a priori right to funding from the U.S. on top of the international aid that they receive. Palestinians in fact receive more international aid per capita than anyone else.
"As for the 100 congressmen who voted against restricting Palestine aid, there were several "Liberal" Jewish congressmen in that group..."
And your point is? AIPAC proposed the restrictions because otherwise the 400+ other congressmembers would have voted the aid package down. Had the Congress been willing to pass a direct aid bill, AIPAC wouldn't have opposed it.
anonymous wrote--
"Israel is not entrusted with dispensing PA aid."
Yes, you are correct in this. I picked the wrong word when I said Israel "disburses" the aid. My point was that Israeli interests (in the U.S.) determined that the aid would not go to the P.A., and that in fact some of it would not go to the Palestinians at all.
This site is about exploring the influence of Israeli-firsters over our government, and not specifically about Palestine, but I am curious about your statement--
"Palestinians in fact receive more international aid per capita than anyone else."
Do you have any support for this? Surely I would have thought Israelis deserve that honor.
The Myth of the Suicide Bomber
http://www.rense.com/general67/suicc.htm
Damn, this is funny...the Israelis have lost their minds picking on the Pope. The Vatican is an older, richer Mafia than the Jews..soon is will be the Jesuits vrs. Mossad.
Will our Israeli congressmen censor the Pope for not being nicer to Israel...will the Vatican be put on the evildoers list?..will the new State Department Office of Anti-Semitism investigate the Pope?...LOL
BBC...
Vatican rejects Israeli complaint
The Pope has yet to address the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in public
The Vatican has rejected Israel's criticism that Pope Benedict XVI failed to condemn Palestinian militant attacks against Israel in his recent remarks.
A Vatican statement said it could not condemn every Palestinian strike because Israel's own response had sometimes violated international law.
Israel had complained that the Pope on Sunday left the country off a list of those recently hit by terror attacks.
The Pope deplored the attacks in Egypt, Turkey, Iraq and Britain.
Stern statement
The latest statement from the Vatican said: "It's not always possible to immediately follow every attack against Israel with a public statement of condemnation."
The Holy See cannot take lessons or instructions from any other authority on the tone and content of its statements
The Vatican's statement
War of Words
It said this was mainly because "the attacks against Israel sometimes were followed by immediate Israel reactions not always compatible with the rules of international law".
"It would thus be impossible to condemn the first (Palestinian attacks) and let the second (Israeli retaliation) pass in silence".
The statement added that "the Holy See cannot take lessons or instructions from any other authority on the tone and content of its statements".
Earlier this week, it criticised the Pope for failing to mention a 12 July suicide bombing in Netanya that killed five Israelis.
The foreign ministry said the pontiff's speech would be interpreted as "granting legitimacy to... terrorist attacks against Jews".
Anonymous..before you get carried away with the Israel buying US arms thingy (which they do, but)..check out the Global Arms sales data base at the FAS ...don't you think it strange that Israel EXPORTS more arms than they import?...Huuummm?...
Go look at the data..what you think it means?...heheheheheh...
We know what it means don't we now?
US-Isr has been bleeding the taxpayers for decades with this arms scheme...and any money we give Isr just means they have even more money to occupy Palestine with and buy more Caterpillers while they sell their own arms.
Time for the scheme to end.
Sure, it means that Israel has a sophisticated technology industry. Israel also is a world leader in manufacturing computer chips, cell phones, etc. An Israeli-American company (Medis Technologies) is leading the way in producing fuel cells for both retail and military use.
r, I hate to break this to you, but you and most of the other people who frequent here probably have an Israeli manufactured pentium chip in your computer. Be true to your convictions and throw out the computer, now!
Bush to bypass Senate and appoint 'JINSA John' Bolton to UN
Israel should be careful with the Vatican. The Vatican will have documents in their archives which could blow their holocau$t cashcow out of the water.
well gee, anonymous..you didn't answer the question
But gettin gon your response...if Isr is doing so well and is such a powerhouse of industry why are they second only to China in industrial spying in the US?...and how come they depend on "joint" weapons programs projects run by the USA and funded by US taxpayers for their arms technology?..and how come they need the US to strong arm other countries on trade deals like the Isr Egyptian cotton deal for them instead of being able to do business on their own?
Israel is a monkey beating it's chest and imitating a silverback gorilla...it makes a lot of noise about it's self but it'sa mjust a monkey ...there's nothing there except blackmail and threats to blow up the mid east and upset the world's oil supply. ..shame on them.
Ouch!..the Vatican just delivered a major slapdown to the Israelis...
Speaking of which..does anyone remember where the old tale of the fox came from? It goes something like..a little fox came out of his den in the morning and saw his long shadow cast in the morning sun and said to himself I think I will have a deer for lunch today....so he ran all day and caught not a single deer....weary and hungry in the afternoon he glimpsed his shortened shadow in the setting sun and said ...maybe a mouse will do.
Is there a lesson here for the Israelis?
Statement released by the Holy See Press Office:
“The indefensible accusation against Pope Benedict XVI according to which he failed to mention the July 12 terror attack in Netanya after last Sunday’s Angelus could not but be seen by who made it for what it was: a pretext. Perhaps, this is also the reason why attention shifted to John Paul II’s alleged silence over attacks against Israel in years past, inventing the contention that the Israeli government made numerous protests to the Holy See, and that, under the new Pontificate, the Holy See change its attitude [towards Israel].
For this reason, it is important to point out that:
a) the interventions of John Paul II against every form of terrorism and against every single act of terrorism against Israel have been many and public, as the statement makes clear;
b) it’s not always possible to immediately follow every attack against Israel with a public statement of condemnation and [that is] for various reasons, among them the fact that the attacks against Israel sometimes were followed by immediate Israeli reactions not always compatible with the rules of international law. It would thus be impossible to condemn the first (the terror strikes) and let the second (Israeli retaliation) pass in silence;
c) just as the Israeli government understandably doesn’t allow itself to be told by others what it should say, neither can the Holy See accept teachings and directives by some other authority regarding the leaning and content of its own statement.”
"But gettin gon your response...if Isr is doing so well and is such a powerhouse of industry why are they second only to China in industrial spying in the US?"
Because that's what competitors in industry do.
"...and how come they depend on "joint" weapons programs projects run by the USA and funded by US taxpayers for their arms technology?"
Because that's a requirement of receiving the aid. Israel has the technological know-how. But as a condition of receiving US aid they have to use U.S. goods.
"..and how come they need the US to strong arm other countries on trade deals like the Isr Egyptian cotton deal for them instead of being able to do business on their own?"
Strong arm? That was promoted by the U.S. as a way of encouraging Israel-Egyptian cooperation. Funny, I thought we WANTED mideast peace.
'JINSA John' Bolton just recess appointed to UN by Bush
Anonymous, dear, if you are going to spin for Isr you really need to have the facts so you can do a better job.
You said on the Egyptian cotton deal:
"Strong arm? That was promoted by the U.S. as a way of encouraging Israel-Egyptian cooperation. Funny, I thought we WANTED mideast peace."
One reason people discount the Israeli camp is that they lie so poorly when anyone can find out the details and truth.
The Egyptian cotton deal was courtesy of the US strong arming the WTO when the free trade zones in Egypt came up for review...prior to that Egypt was a free trade zone for cotton exports, the US being one of the largest customers and cotton being one of Egypt's largest exports and largest employers of Egyptians.
The "revised" free trade zones took away some "zones from Egypt and required that their cotton exports incorporate around 12-17% Israeli materials in order to qualifty for export. By closing some manufacturing zones in Egypt it forces, along with having to use Israeli material, the Egyptians to pass their some of their cotton exports thru Israel.
This was in no way a good deal for Egypt or the Egyptians and a perfect example of Isr influence on the US to get them business they can't get for themselves and according to the riots in protest in Egypt did not contribute to peace. Just another example of the Israeli tactic of stealing or strong arming for business because they aren't smart enough to do business or make money in the normal world of commerce.
Judy [Shalom, wife of the Israeli foreign minister], speaking on a television show about the recent bombings in London:
"As long as I hold no official position, I can say it's not all bad for the English to find out what it's like."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
All together now..
WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE?
When are the Rabbis going to denounce this hate speech? When are the Israelis going to speak out aginst killing of innocent civilians (besides their own)? Some one call congress at once and demand an apology for our ally, Great Britian! Are the Temples hotbeds of radicalism? Call the FBI!
Heheheheh...I love reading the comments when something like this appears at the Washington Monthly..the Israeli posters always say..."the Arabs say worse".."the Arabs are always justifing their pleasure at revenge bombing"...ad nausum.
I say...not a dime's worth of different between the radical Islamis and the radical zionist...birds of a feather. We should round them all up and put them together in the human abberation section of an international zoo.
Hehe. On this topic, I've been waiting for someone to take a close look at what's being taught in some of the Jewish yeshivas. With all this attention being paid to the "hate-filled" Muslim madrassas, it would be enlightening to hear what those settler kids are being taught.
anonymous..re:
"Wait till they find out in Peoria who's responsible. And find out they will."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I also love James Wolcott, it's a toss up as to who is better with the English language, Wolcott or the fiesty Brit, George Galloway!
I noticed that Steve Clemons over at the Note agrees with you,he thinks all the current investigations going on will unleash all hell on Bushco and the neo's in the coming year.
If that happens, and we could give congress a gaint enema, we might save the country...and limit the damage we have done to the rest of the world.
David..speaking of Jewish schools and such I read some time ago ..think it was in the Forward or maybe one of the Jewish newspapers...about a Jewish school forbidding student from bringing non jewish dates to their school prom. If this was a Muslim group every Jewish zealot in the US wold be all over the airwaves denouncing them as bigots and radicals who want to populate the country with Arabs and so on....
The more I read...from their own lips...the more obvious it is that the extreme jewish groups are the real bigots and racist in this country...can you imagine what would be said if it was a Catholic who outlawed non Catholic dating or a gentile school who would allow their student to date jews?
Crazy, crazy...it's as obvious as the nose on our face who the bigots are...
"Just another example of the Israeli tactic of stealing or strong arming for business because they aren't smart enough to do business or make money in the normal world of commerce."
But you're not antisemitic. You're just antizionist.
Slimy warmongers.
http://tinyurl.com/ddzca
Chickens coming home to roost in the zionist entity.
http://tinyurl.com/b3dsb
Well, there were some good Germans, no?
http://tinyurl.com/8d2ya
August 2, 2005 -- Italian criminal probe yields name "Colonel Franklin" hosting meetings at U.S. Embassy in Rome with top neo-Fascist Italian politicians and Likud officials from Israel. An ongoing criminal investigation in Italy has yielded copies of the minutes of meetings held at the U.S. Embassy in Rome in 1995 attended by a "Colonel Franklin" from the United States, leading Italian neo-Fascist politicians (including Deputy Prime Minister Giancarlo Fini), and Likud officials from Israel. The meetings were held to arrange for lucrative telecommunications and military contracts for Israeli companies with the U.S. government.
Read the rest at...
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/
anonymous 9:02:44, thanks for the Pravda link. Although, can't Pravda get someone who actually speaks English to do their translations? :)
There's a weird anti-Russia thing coming out of the neo-cons. The Chechens for example aren't called "islamofascists", but "freedom fighters". I suspect it has something to do with Putin's resistance to the oligarchs.
The western media usually describes them as progressive capitalists persecuted by the government for trying to introduce reforms, but Russians just see them as a Jewish mafia who took advantage of the collapse of the Soviet Union to rape the country.
I suspect Putin's resistance to their take-over of the country's media is going to be an epic battle. Jewish interests aren't going to accept it lightly, and I'm sure Putin knows this.
There was a fascinating news photo a few months back (of course not shown in the U.S. media) of Putin laying a wreath at the grave of Yasser Arafat. It was strangely moving, like the opening shot in a great battle.
Well, the international crook and Chechen terrhhrrroorist financier, Berezovsky, is trying to fight back from his base in London. Guzinsky, another criminal, has fled to Israel, due to his release by a Greek court no doubt well acquainted with the value of the Euro by now.
Reading that Pravda article about Nevzlin's purchasing his "honors" from those Jewish institutions, it reminds me of that other predator, Marc Rich, who also began donating heavily to Jewish causes as soon as he began having troubles with the law. When asked why he would pardon such a crook, Clinton said he had been pressured to do so by the World Jewish Congress.
Remember Robert Maxwell, who plundered the pension fund of the New York Daily News and destroyed it and a number of other papers? After his death, the crook received a state funeral in Israel, presumably for service to the tribe.
Speaking of which,
The Neo-Shill Media
http://tinyurl.com/azgsq
From the always trenchant Paul Craig Roberts
Jerusalem Post; Nov. 13
But there is a curious twist in the tail that will give the anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists much to chew on with the imminent arrival on the scene of the new power behind Khodorkovsky's Yukos empire.
Stepping into the breech is the formidable figure of Lord Jacob Rothschild, head of the London branch of one of the most illustrious families in the annals of banking.
What Putin discovered only after he attempted to freeze Khodorkovsky's stake in Yukos was that the arrest had automatically triggered a secret trustee agreement that Khodorkovsky had concluded with the 67-year-old Rothschild several months earlier.
Thus, when Khodorkovsky was arrested, Rothschild automatically assumed control of his $8 billion stake in Yukos, which has been held by the Gibraltar-based Menatep Group.
Though separated by a generation in age, Khodorkovsky and Rothschild are said to have become close friends, drawn together by mutual passions for art and philanthropy.
Both men are trustees, along with several other oligarchs, of the Open Russia Foundation, which was established with Yukos money to support educational projects. It was Russia's first foray into the world of corporate philanthropy.
Looks to me that the Ruskies caught early on the meaning of "corporate philanthropy." Lol!
I like the part about them being "drawn together by mutual passions for art and philanthropy." :)
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