That is an interesting article. It gives me hope that our education system is not totally in shambles and maybe encourages people to think for themselves.
On the other hand if people question the conflict between Israel and Palestine perhaps it just means common sense is not dead. If it walks, talks and quacks like an hostile occupation, it is an occupation, particulary if all the resources of one country are sucked out of one into another.
I haven't seem much about the AIPAC investigation except for one article last week in the JP that went so far as to suggest that the investigation had widen to "another official" in the pentagon.
I hate to wish my life away but it is really going to be interesting to see how history writes up this USA abberation that we are living in right now where black is white and up and is down.
"If the Israeli security apparatus were to use FBI methods when it comes to the leaking of classified material to American representatives, indictments would have to be served against dozens of Israeli officials who feel themselves too free in their conversations with the representatives of Israel's greatest ally."
The idea that this is "spying" is just silly. But keep hoping that this country will all of a sudden switch solidarity from those who held a day of mourning on 9/11 to those who danced like maniacs in the streets.
I suppose they also held a day of mourning after the false-flag operation of attacking the USS Liberty so as to place the blame on Egypt? The more bedewed with crocodile tears the day of mourning, the more likely 9/11 was also a Mossad false-flag operation. Cui bono? after all.
"The more bedewed with crocodile tears the day of mourning, the more likely 9/11 was also a Mossad false-flag operation."
But I'm not antisemitic. I'm just anti-Zionist, really.
I miss the original gorilla, at least he knew when to smack down a complete retard like yourself, and to distance himself from sites like whatreallyhappened. The gorilla, at least, wanted a facade of credibility.
And I'm sorry that a total of thirteen investigations into the USS Liberty, all concluding that the attack was a mistake, doesn't satisfy you.
"to distance himself from sites like whatreallyhappened"
You implying that those Mossad agents weren't caught? That the story is all an "anti-semitic" plot?
It turns out, we know there was a massive increase in Israeli spying ops in the U.S. in the months just before 9/11. It is not open to doubt or interpretation.
You really ought to look up some of the summaries of what's known about it. Since you're spending all this time hanging around anti-Zionist sites, you might as well learn something.
Why are we pathetic? You can't just say "pathetic" without facts to back it up. I am not a racist, and because of that fact I most certainly do not believe that Jews are always blameless, innocent, "God's Chosen People" (by the way, I am not a big fan of Muslims OR Christians either). I met some of those Israeli "art students" myself in 2000, they were creepy and asked me (not a drug dealer OR user) to sell them some acid and extasy. A good friend of mine in Boston stopped some of the "art students" from infiltrating a secure lab at the university there. They are not a myth. Also, the "Odigo issue" is similarly NOT A MYTH or an "Urban Legend", as Odigo itself admits in Ha'aretz :
The US-Isr arms- China sales spat is interesting, seems Israel has been slapped down and now has to pass all their arms sales deals by the US.
Anyone want to bet the Israelis will violate this agreement faster then you can say jackrabbit? And every time they do it will be an "accident", a "misunderstanding" or the rouge action of some low level nobody unconnected to the government of Israel. LOL
Gawd...I would give a considerable amount to see our political whores twitching like jumping beans between their US arms industry contributors and their AIPAC friends. What a sight that would be.
The Israeli art students were not part of a spy ring. They were part of an illegal entry scam (as were the five "Mossad Agents"). Israelis come to the country and, like so many other people around the world, try to make a quick buck. The art students were selling bogus (albeit pretty enough) paintings, in a scam where they and whoever was sponsoring them made some money off cheap "art." And these guys were deported? How many "Mossad agents" would ask for drugs? I know plenty of 20 something kids who would, I don't know any serious spy who would.
The U.S. did precisely what they had to. They rounded them up and deported them.
There is no antisemitism in facts. There is antisemitism when you give facts an absolutely implausible interpretation based on your bigotry.
If they were just "art students" trying to make a buck then why were they trying to make maps of a secure bio-lab in Boston? My friend had to call the campus police to eject the "art students". The "art students" were mapping the emergency exits, etc. WHY? If they were just trying to sell art, then why were they not out selling art, instead of infiltrating university and federal properties? Plus, on the drugs note, lots of cops and spies do drugs, and they also try to set people they do not like for a fall ... these guys obviously knew exactly who I was when they approached me (long story). I think they were trying to get me busted because it is no secret that I am against Zionism.
You can call me an anti-semite all day, and I don't care, because I know it is a meaningless term (arabs are semites too, and most jews are not even "semitic", they are white europeans). I am not a racist but I am most certainly a "culturalist", and I am not a supporter of zionist culture, or any other nationalistic culture movement for that matter (KKK, Nation Of Islam, Shiv Sena, Aztlan movement, etc etc). For example, I am against communism, but that does not make me an anti-chinese or anti-cuban racist. By the way, my friend who called the cops on the "Israeli art students" who were trying to infiltrate the lab at the university in Boston is Jewish (by birth, not by culture), plus he is also against zionism, and no he is not one of those Neturei Karta freaks. Your playing the "anti-semitism" card is an impotent gesture.
UP to 200 young Israelis, some of them former members of military intelligence units, have been arrested in America in the past year, a leaked government report disclosed yesterday. Some had used cover stories to gain access to sensitive government buildings and the homes of American officials. The report said the actions of some of the Israelis, most of whom had outstayed tourist visas, "may well be an organised intelligence-gathering activity". ..........
The leaked report was compiled by the Drug Enforcement Administration after some of its offices were allegedly targeted by Israelis posing as art students. "That these people are now travelling in the US selling art seems not to fit their background," the DEA report said. The DEA report said most of the students questioned by American investigators acknowledged having served in units of the Israeli armed forces specialising in military intelligence, electronic signals interception or explosive ordnance.
Explosive ordnance? Poor, poor undocumented allien explosive ordnance specialists. Where will the persecution end. Where?
Every Israeli serves in the military, you idiot. The fact that they are in "military intelligence" or the other units just means that they were relatively bright and could avoid serving in a combat unit.
The report you post is nothing new. A disgruntled DEA agent thought that there was something to this. It turned out there wasn't, and so he leaks the info to create a story. And of course it has enough useful idiots like yourself to cite it as if it had any credibility.
"Every Israeli serves in the military, you idiot." OH WELL, I guess that must mean that they are ALL innocent and blameless little lambs. Funny how you Zionists always resort to name-calling when you have no strong argument ("idiot", "anti-semite", etc). I have all my facts documented 100% from mainstream and government sources... DO YOU? For instance, just who is this "disgrunteled DEA Agent" you reference? On a related note, I guess Larry Franklin and the AIPAC spy scandal is all just a bunch of hooey to you, since you seem to think that Israelis are always totally innocent just by the virtue of their being jews ... only "dirty anti-semites" would get angry at a foreign government spying on and passing faulty info to the Pentagon! You probably also think that all those Israeli executives arrested a few weeks ago for using computer viruses for spying are innocent too, they just got set up by a bunch of "anti-semites" who are infesting the Israeli government !?!?!
"OH WELL, I guess that must mean that they are ALL innocent and blameless little lambs."
No, it just means that the fact that a 20 something Israeli had previously served in an "intelligence unit" it not nearly as remarkable as you make it out to be.
"Funny how you Zionists always resort to name-calling when you have no strong argument"
No, only when the shoe fits.
"I have all my facts documented 100% from mainstream and government sources..."
A report from a DEA agent that the agency decided wasn't credible?
"DO YOU?"
Yes, the DEA itself, which decided that the allegations weren't credible.
"For instance, just who is this "disgrunteled DEA Agent" you reference?"
The same one that you quote as a "government source." I.e., the guy who's allegations were considered incredible, which he then leaked because of his frustrations.
"On a related note, I guess Larry Franklin and the AIPAC spy scandal is all just a bunch of hooey to you, since you seem to think that Israelis are always totally innocent just by the virtue of their being jews "
Of course it's not a "related note" its a completely separate allegation. Personally, I think the New Yorker article got it right, which is that there is much ado about very little. There was no spying, but a little "chin music" thrown at AIPAC because some people don't appreciate their being aggressive politically. I don't agree with everything AIPAC does either, but I do realize that prosecution for political activity is somewhat Orwellian.
"You probably also think that all those Israeli executives arrested a few weeks ago for using computer viruses for spying are innocent too, they just got set up by a bunch of "anti-semites" who are infesting the Israeli government !?!?! "
Not at all, they are criminals. And bravo to Israeli law enforcement for working with other countries to shut them down.
For the New Zealand passports, it would not surprise me if all if that was a Mossad job.
Still, Helen Clark's inability to articulate any evidence makes her allegations questionable. All along, her line was "we have the evidence, and we will not resume normal relations until you apologize." So Israel apologizes, and Helen Clark says "AHA! They apologized! That means it must have been the Mossad!" No evidence of course.
There's a term for that. It's called the "Star Chamber"
Hey, zionist cretin...Here's the quote from the Telegraph.
most of the students questioned by American investigators acknowledged having served in units of the Israeli armed forces specialising in military intelligence, electronic signals interception or explosive ordnance.
most as in MOST.
Are MOST Israelis EXPERT in military intelligence, electronic signals interception or explosive ordnance? Hmmm?
What, goober, are the odds of MOST that those poor sad immigration cases were specialists in military intelligence, in electronic signals interception?
Reports of the mysterious Israelis with an inexplicable interest in peddling art to G-men came in from more than 40 U.S. cities and continued throughout the first six months of 2001. Agents of the DEA, ATF, Air Force, Secret Service, FBI, and U.S. Marshals Service documented some 130 separate incidents of "art student" encounters. Some of the Israelis were observed diagramming the inside of federal buildings. Some were found carrying photographs they had taken of federal agents. One was discovered with a computer printout in his luggage that referred to "DEA groups." Hey, just strolling along, immigration cases just minding their beeswax. In some cases, the Israelis visited locations not known to the public -- areas without street addresses, for example, or DEA offices not identified as such -- leading authorities to suspect that information had been gathered from prior surveillance or perhaps electronically, from credit cards and other sources. One Israeli was discovered holding banking receipts for substantial sums of money, close to $180,000 in withdrawals and deposits over a two-month period. Poor, poor, poor immigration case. I'm telling. In March 2001, the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive (NCIX), a branch of the CIA, issued a heads-up to federal employees about "suspicious visitors to federal facilities." The warning noted that "employees have observed both males and females attempting to bypass facility security and enter federal buildings." Federal agents, the warning stated, had "arrested two of these individuals for trespassing and discovered that the suspects possessed counterfeit work visas and green cards." Guess the anti semites in the CIA weren't aware the Izzies were immigration cases.
The "art students" followed a predictable modus operandi. They generally worked in teams, typically consisting of a driver, who was the team leader, and three or four subordinates. The driver would drop the "salespeople" off at a given location and return to pick them up some hours later. The "salespeople" entered offices or approached agents in their offices or homes. Sometimes they pitched their artwork -- landscapes, abstract works, homemade pins and other items they carried about in portfolios. At other times, they simply attempted to engage agents in conversation. If asked about their studies, they generally said they were from the Bezalel Academy of Arts and Design in Jerusalem or the University of Jerusalem (which does not exist). They were described as "aggressive" in their sales pitch and "evasive" when questioned by wary agents. The females among them were invariably described as "very attractive" -- "blondes in tight shorts or jeans, real lookers," as one DEA agent put it to Salon. "They were flirty, flipping the hair, looking at you, smiling. 'Hey, how are you? Let me show you this.' Everything a woman would do if she wanted to get something out of you." Some agents noted that the "students" made repeated attempts to avoid facility security personnel by trying to enter federal buildings through back doors and side entrances. On several occasions, suspicious agents who had been visited at home observed the Israelis after the "students" departed and noted that they did not approach any of the neighbors.
Wow. It's worse than I thought. Flirty, flirty immigration cases.
According to the DEA, Israel's underground army in the US consisted of "around 20 units composed of between four and eight members each." More names are named: Michael Calmanovic headed up the team in Irving, Texas, while Florida was the domain of Hanan Serfaty. Legum Yochai had charge of the Miami operation. Online Intelligence also notes the Amdocs connection: it seems these "art students" "cultivated contacts with Israeli information technology companies based in the US and serving as regular suppliers to various U.S. federal agencies, such as Amdocs" and others. The Fox News series is cited, by Online Intelligence and Le Monde, and the former even provides a convenient map of the Texas chapter of the "art students" underground apparatus, complete with not only names, but arrival dates, corporate connections, when and where they were arrested, and their specific functions in the Israeli military-intelligence apparatus.
Those nasty, nasty DEA anti Semites picking on those poor innocent immigration cases.
But one more thing you could have added--One of the "art student" cells rented a house next to Mohammed Atta's in Hollywood, Florida. That's not coincidence.
They are not at all innocent immigration cases. They were illegally working, and selling sham art, to make a quick buck.
The ignorance some people have here as to israeli society is not surprising. To review. Every Israeli serves in the army (Arabs are allowed, but not compelled, to serve). Anyone with some brains who wants to avoid heavy combat will try to get into specialized units. The Air Force is the most elite, but a bit dangerous. Military intelligence is another elite unit, and not nearly as dangerous. Explosives ordnance removal? That's a bit more garden variety, and largely has to do with defusing bombs, which in Israel can be quite difficult when said bombs are attached to drugged out Palestinians ready to blow themselves up.
So for all the incredulity posted by some people here, the fact that you had some Israelis with military backgrounds, including intelligence units, is entirely unremarkable.
After Israelis serve in the army, those who have the means to do so will travel for a year before going back to school. So again, the fact that several 20 year olds are going around the country is not suspicious at all. And, some like many other people who come to this country, try to make a quick buck.
And now the fact that some of the women are pretty and wear tight jeans is suspicious? Gee, I guess you assume that all "regular" Israelis are deformed and have horns.
But there are some people who want to suspect a spy ring where there is none. This even though the government admitted that they DID look into it and found the whole thing to be an urban legend. But like the game of telephone, a story gets repeated enough, embellished, and it takes on a life of its own.
You can believe your paranoid fantasies if you want to. Any serious accounting of this episode showed that there was really no big deal.
Sorry, Zionist dude, but your attempted blow-off of this issue with your vague explanations like "nothing new", "a disgruntled DEA Agent" and "the government looked into it and found it to be an urban legend" does not fly. I earler asked you for WHO the DEA Agent was and you avoided the question with your usual BS. WHO (as in a name) is the "disgruntled DEA Agent"? WHERE is the report about the government investigation that found it to be an "urban legend"? SOURCES PLEASE!
"Anyone want to bet the Israelis will violate this agreement faster then you can say jackrabbit? And every time they do it will be an "accident", "misunderstanding" or the rouge action of some low level nobody unconnected to the government of Israel."
That's precisely the way our friend of Israel anonymous guest is proceeding.
This is a way of living for them. They cheat and deceive and distort and insist endlessly. While we dislike having to call them to task, they love this sport. They will wait we spend our energy and then will cravenly post a last word again. And wait smilling for our rage to surface another time.
That's why this people deservedly have been persecuted for centuries and that's why they always will be.
I am just visiting the gorilla website because the genuinely serious website http://www.jewishtribalreview.org is on suspension for the summer. Any real critic of Jewish power should just laugh at the accusation of 'anti-semite,' which really means nothing more now than 'a person Jews hate.' Those who wish to claim 'I am anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic' are, for all practical purposes, either frauds or fools or dupes. You either oppose excessive, unwarranted, and unhealthy Jewish power, or you apologize for it, or you ignore it. I don't really care about the Palestinians. I care about my country, the United States, and about the Jews' destruction of this country. Zionism is only part of that destructive equation, and certainly not the most important part. Brown vs. Board of Education would never have happened without the support of Jews. The immigration act of 1965 would never have happened without Jews pushing for it. The ongoing worldwide war against the white race is a product of Jewish legalists, Jewish think tanks, Jewish run media, Jewish managed NGOs, etc. Read Kevin MacDonald. Visit www.fpp.co.uk.
Agreed that JewishTribalReview is a special resource. There's too much there to talk about "agreeing" or "disagreeing." Just to see the whole subject of Jewishness discussed seriously for the first time can be a real mind-blower. (So much for our supposedly "free" speech.)
Even if you don't give a damn might be worth checking out just for curiosity's sake--it can't be much longer when even this is called a thought crime and wiped out.
"...and then will cravenly post a last word again..."
Indeed.
By the way, regarding the antisemite label so often used in this thread:
"It is thus a misleading - and often a consciously and demagogically misleading - label." - Robert Conquest - The Dragons of Expectation - Hardcover Ed, pg 36.
I have a feeling our Zionist guest is not about to raise the level of his discussion, so I'll give it a try:
Everyone is familiar with the tired use of "anti-Semitism" to shut down criticism of Jewish groups or Israel. But there's another level on which to understand it's use: "anti-Semitism" as something actually essential to the very notion of Jewishness; as the foundation of modern Jewish identity.
This works in a couple of ways. It's underpinnings are religious: in the Torah, the sufferings of the tribe are seen as the just punishments of God. The Chosen People are carried into slavery in Babylon because they had failed to uphold the special covenant God had made with them, etc. In fact, it is these very sufferings which PROVE that they are God's Chosen People. (God apparently had no such high expectations of the Babylonians, for example.)
Today, now that most Jews are not believers in the Jewish religion, the notion of the Chosen People is harder to maintain. But the idea of an instinctive, irrational, implacable, and eternal "anti-Semitism" amongst the Gentiles still serves a similar function. Like all victimhood complexes, it convinces the sufferer that he is different from his "persecutor", that he is unique, that he is BETTER. Ultimately, it is a way of escaping responsibility for one's actions.
There is lots more to be said, and most of this stuff has been well discussed by Jews among themselves.
By the way, all this is not to say that there can be no such thing as actual prejudice against Jews. But I don't think it is the major problem we face today. In my opinion, it's much more important right now to understand the appeal of "anti-Semitism" to certain minds looking to see themselves as victims.
It's not clear to me that such a self-view is a healthy thing when held by a group with as much as power as Jews hold today.
46 Comments:
Interesting article--
U.S. 'YOUNG ELITE' SEES ISRAEL AS A PROBLEM
http://prorev.com/2005/06/us-young-elite-sees-israel-as-problem.htm
(The original article is from the JTA, but requires registration.)
It seems "pollster" Frank Luntz thinks exposure to mainstream media is creating sympathy for the Palestinians, and he's out to stop it!
That is an interesting article. It gives me hope that our education system is not totally in shambles and maybe encourages people to think for themselves.
On the other hand if people question the conflict between Israel and Palestine perhaps it just means common sense is not dead. If it walks, talks and quacks like an hostile occupation, it is an occupation, particulary if all the resources of one country are sucked out of one into another.
I haven't seem much about the AIPAC investigation except for one article last week in the JP that went so far as to suggest that the investigation had widen to "another official" in the pentagon.
I hate to wish my life away but it is really going to be interesting to see how history writes up this USA abberation that we are living in right now where black is white and up and is down.
Lengthy new article in the New Yorker regarding the FBI investigation of AIPAC:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050704fa_fact
Dynamite.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050704fa_fact
Yet another article on the FBI investigation of AIPAC, this time from Haaretz, suggesting that the affair is far from over:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/591644.html
Note the last paragraph of the article:
"If the Israeli security apparatus were to use FBI methods when it comes to the leaking of classified material to American representatives, indictments would have to be served against dozens of Israeli officials who feel themselves too free in their conversations with the representatives of Israel's greatest ally."
The idea that this is "spying" is just silly. But keep hoping that this country will all of a sudden switch solidarity from those who held a day of mourning on 9/11 to those who danced like maniacs in the streets.
The reference to dancing in the streets wasn't clear; is this what you were referring to?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html
I suppose they also held a day of mourning after the false-flag operation of attacking the USS Liberty so as to place the blame on Egypt?
The more bedewed with crocodile tears the day of mourning, the more likely 9/11 was also a Mossad false-flag operation.
Cui bono? after all.
"The more bedewed with crocodile tears the day of mourning, the more likely 9/11 was also a Mossad false-flag operation."
But I'm not antisemitic. I'm just anti-Zionist, really.
I miss the original gorilla, at least he knew when to smack down a complete retard like yourself, and to distance himself from sites like whatreallyhappened. The gorilla, at least, wanted a facade of credibility.
And I'm sorry that a total of thirteen investigations into the USS Liberty, all concluding that the attack was a mistake, doesn't satisfy you.
"to distance himself from sites like whatreallyhappened"
You implying that those Mossad agents weren't caught? That the story is all an "anti-semitic" plot?
It turns out, we know there was a massive increase in Israeli spying ops in the U.S. in the months just before 9/11. It is not open to doubt or interpretation.
You really ought to look up some of the summaries of what's known about it. Since you're spending all this time hanging around anti-Zionist sites, you might as well learn something.
Start with the Israeli Art Student Files at antiwar.com--
http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php
What Really Happened is a great site. I'm spamming it to everyone I know, and asking them to do the same.
Eyes have been opened, needless to say. Almost as good as antiwar.com.
Not often you get unvarnished truths, day in day out. Of course, the zionists are, how shall I put it, uncomfortable?
Indispensable page. Spam it.
The 'Israeli Art Student' Files
Media coverage of Israel's underground in the US – and the 9/11 connection.
http://tinyurl.com/cqpba
Ah yes, the "Mossad agents" and the "art student spies" canard. You guys really are pathetic.
Why are we pathetic? You can't just say "pathetic" without facts to back it up. I am not a racist, and because of that fact I most certainly do not believe that Jews are always blameless, innocent, "God's Chosen People" (by the way, I am not a big fan of Muslims OR Christians either).
I met some of those Israeli "art students" myself in 2000, they were creepy and asked me (not a drug dealer OR user) to sell them some acid and extasy. A good friend of mine in Boston stopped some of the "art students" from infiltrating a secure lab at the university there. They are not a myth. Also, the "Odigo issue" is similarly NOT A MYTH or an "Urban Legend", as Odigo itself admits in Ha'aretz :
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744&contrassID=/has%5C
Why is it "PATHETIC" to state the simple facts?
Why is it "RACIST" to state the facts?
Why is it "ANTI-SEMITIC" to state facts?
FACTS DO NOT COME IN POINTS OF VIEW.
Sorry, I don't think that Odigo story URL came through properly:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744&contrassID=/has%5C
Somewhat related:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/593026.html
The US-Isr arms- China sales spat is interesting, seems Israel has been slapped down and now has to pass all their arms sales deals by the US.
Anyone want to bet the Israelis will violate this agreement faster then you can say jackrabbit? And every time they do it will be an "accident", a "misunderstanding" or the rouge action of some low level nobody unconnected to the government of Israel. LOL
Gawd...I would give a considerable amount to see our political whores twitching like jumping beans between their US arms industry contributors and their AIPAC friends. What a sight that would be.
The Israeli art students were not part of a spy ring. They were part of an illegal entry scam (as were the five "Mossad Agents"). Israelis come to the country and, like so many other people around the world, try to make a quick buck. The art students were selling bogus (albeit pretty enough) paintings, in a scam where they and whoever was sponsoring them made some money off cheap "art." And these guys were deported? How many "Mossad agents" would ask for drugs? I know plenty of 20 something kids who would, I don't know any serious spy who would.
The U.S. did precisely what they had to. They rounded them up and deported them.
There is no antisemitism in facts. There is antisemitism when you give facts an absolutely implausible interpretation based on your bigotry.
If they were just "art students" trying to make a buck then why were they trying to make maps of a secure bio-lab in Boston? My friend had to call the campus police to eject the "art students". The "art students" were mapping the emergency exits, etc. WHY? If they were just trying to sell art, then why were they not out selling art, instead of infiltrating university and federal properties? Plus, on the drugs note, lots of cops and spies do drugs, and they also try to set people they do not like for a fall ... these guys obviously knew exactly who I was when they approached me (long story). I think they were trying to get me busted because it is no secret that I am against Zionism.
Hmmm, interesting thought: There is antisemitism when you give facts an absolutely implausible interpretation based on your... antisemitism!
But it's ok! Afterall, even people who dwell over a Mobius Strip deserve their regular "Keep Walking Moment".
You can call me an anti-semite all day, and I don't care, because I know it is a meaningless term (arabs are semites too, and most jews are not even "semitic", they are white europeans). I am not a racist but I am most certainly a "culturalist", and I am not a supporter of zionist culture, or any other nationalistic culture movement for that matter (KKK, Nation Of Islam, Shiv Sena, Aztlan movement, etc etc). For example, I am against communism, but that does not make me an anti-chinese or anti-cuban racist. By the way, my friend who called the cops on the "Israeli art students" who were trying to infiltrate the lab at the university in Boston is Jewish (by birth, not by culture), plus he is also against zionism, and no he is not one of those Neturei Karta freaks. Your playing the "anti-semitism" card is an impotent gesture.
Telegraph (UK).
http://tinyurl.com/68jzw
UP to 200 young Israelis, some of them former members of military intelligence units, have been arrested in America in the past year, a leaked government report disclosed yesterday.
Some had used cover stories to gain access to sensitive government buildings and the homes of American officials. The report said the actions of some of the Israelis, most of whom had outstayed tourist visas, "may well be an organised intelligence-gathering activity".
..........
The leaked report was compiled by the Drug Enforcement Administration after some of its offices were allegedly targeted by Israelis posing as art students. "That these people are now travelling in the US selling art seems not to fit their background," the DEA report said.
The DEA report said most of the students questioned by American investigators acknowledged having served in units of the Israeli armed forces specialising in military intelligence, electronic signals interception or explosive ordnance.
Explosive ordnance? Poor, poor undocumented allien explosive ordnance specialists. Where will the persecution end. Where?
Every Israeli serves in the military, you idiot. The fact that they are in "military intelligence" or the other units just means that they were relatively bright and could avoid serving in a combat unit.
The report you post is nothing new. A disgruntled DEA agent thought that there was something to this. It turned out there wasn't, and so he leaks the info to create a story. And of course it has enough useful idiots like yourself to cite it as if it had any credibility.
And it's just more anti-Semitic conspiracy-mongering behind the Israelis seeking New Zealand passports too, isn't it?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10332870
"Every Israeli serves in the military, you idiot."
OH WELL, I guess that must mean that they are ALL innocent and blameless little lambs. Funny how you Zionists always resort to name-calling when you have no strong argument ("idiot", "anti-semite", etc). I have all my facts documented 100% from mainstream and government sources... DO YOU? For instance, just who is this "disgrunteled DEA Agent" you reference?
On a related note, I guess Larry Franklin and the AIPAC spy scandal is all just a bunch of hooey to you, since you seem to think that Israelis are always totally innocent just by the virtue of their being jews ... only "dirty anti-semites" would get angry at a foreign government spying on and passing faulty info to the Pentagon!
You probably also think that all those Israeli executives arrested a few weeks ago for using computer viruses for spying are innocent too, they just got set up by a bunch of "anti-semites" who are infesting the Israeli government !?!?!
"OH WELL, I guess that must mean that they are ALL innocent and blameless little lambs."
No, it just means that the fact that a 20 something Israeli had previously served in an "intelligence unit" it not nearly as remarkable as you make it out to be.
"Funny how you Zionists always resort to name-calling when you have no strong argument"
No, only when the shoe fits.
"I have all my facts documented 100% from mainstream and government sources..."
A report from a DEA agent that the agency decided wasn't credible?
"DO YOU?"
Yes, the DEA itself, which decided that the allegations weren't credible.
"For instance, just who is this "disgrunteled DEA Agent" you reference?"
The same one that you quote as a "government source." I.e., the guy who's allegations were considered incredible, which he then leaked because of his frustrations.
"On a related note, I guess Larry Franklin and the AIPAC spy scandal is all just a bunch of hooey to you, since you seem to think that Israelis are always totally innocent just by the virtue of their being jews "
Of course it's not a "related note" its a completely separate allegation. Personally, I think the New Yorker article got it right, which is that there is much ado about very little. There was no spying, but a little "chin music" thrown at AIPAC because some people don't appreciate their being aggressive politically. I don't agree with everything AIPAC does either, but I do realize that prosecution for political activity is somewhat Orwellian.
"You probably also think that all those Israeli executives arrested a few weeks ago for using computer viruses for spying are innocent too, they just got set up by a bunch of "anti-semites" who are infesting the Israeli government !?!?! "
Not at all, they are criminals. And bravo to Israeli law enforcement for working with other countries to shut them down.
For the New Zealand passports, it would not surprise me if all if that was a Mossad job.
Still, Helen Clark's inability to articulate any evidence makes her allegations questionable. All along, her line was "we have the evidence, and we will not resume normal relations until you apologize." So Israel apologizes, and Helen Clark says "AHA! They apologized! That means it must have been the Mossad!" No evidence of course.
There's a term for that. It's called the "Star Chamber"
http://invisiblog.com/90dc45aa20aea7b0/http://invisiblog.com/90dc45aa20aea7b0/http://invisiblog.com/90dc45aa20aea7b0/
Just FYI
http://invisiblog.com/90dc45aa20aea7b0/http://invisiblog.com/90dc45aa20aea7b0/
Hey, zionist cretin...Here's the quote from the Telegraph.
most of the students questioned by American investigators acknowledged having served in units of the Israeli armed forces specialising in military intelligence, electronic signals interception or explosive ordnance.
most as in MOST.
Are MOST Israelis EXPERT in military intelligence, electronic signals interception or explosive ordnance? Hmmm?
What, goober, are the odds of MOST that those poor sad immigration cases were specialists in military intelligence, in electronic signals interception?
Salon.
http://tinyurl.com/95cus
Reports of the mysterious Israelis with an inexplicable interest in peddling art to G-men came in from more than 40 U.S. cities and continued throughout the first six months of 2001. Agents of the DEA, ATF, Air Force, Secret Service, FBI, and U.S. Marshals Service documented some 130 separate incidents of "art student" encounters. Some of the Israelis were observed diagramming the inside of federal buildings. Some were found carrying photographs they had taken of federal agents. One was discovered with a computer printout in his luggage that referred to "DEA groups."
Hey, just strolling along, immigration cases just minding their beeswax.
In some cases, the Israelis visited locations not known to the public -- areas without street addresses, for example, or DEA offices not identified as such -- leading authorities to suspect that information had been gathered from prior surveillance or perhaps electronically, from credit cards and other sources. One Israeli was discovered holding banking receipts for substantial sums of money, close to $180,000 in withdrawals and deposits over a two-month period.
Poor, poor, poor immigration case. I'm telling.
In March 2001, the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive (NCIX), a branch of the CIA, issued a heads-up to federal employees about "suspicious visitors to federal facilities." The warning noted that "employees have observed both males and females attempting to bypass facility security and enter federal buildings." Federal agents, the warning stated, had "arrested two of these individuals for trespassing and discovered that the suspects possessed counterfeit work visas and green cards."
Guess the anti semites in the CIA weren't aware the Izzies were immigration cases.
http://tinyurl.com/95cus
The "art students" followed a predictable modus operandi. They generally worked in teams, typically consisting of a driver, who was the team leader, and three or four subordinates. The driver would drop the "salespeople" off at a given location and return to pick them up some hours later. The "salespeople" entered offices or approached agents in their offices or homes. Sometimes they pitched their artwork -- landscapes, abstract works, homemade pins and other items they carried about in portfolios. At other times, they simply attempted to engage agents in conversation. If asked about their studies, they generally said they were from the Bezalel Academy of Arts and Design in Jerusalem or the University of Jerusalem (which does not exist). They were described as "aggressive" in their sales pitch and "evasive" when questioned by wary agents. The females among them were invariably described as "very attractive" -- "blondes in tight shorts or jeans, real lookers," as one DEA agent put it to Salon. "They were flirty, flipping the hair, looking at you, smiling. 'Hey, how are you? Let me show you this.' Everything a woman would do if she wanted to get something out of you." Some agents noted that the "students" made repeated attempts to avoid facility security personnel by trying to enter federal buildings through back doors and side entrances. On several occasions, suspicious agents who had been visited at home observed the Israelis after the "students" departed and noted that they did not approach any of the neighbors.
Wow. It's worse than I thought. Flirty, flirty immigration cases.
More.
http://tinyurl.com/ntqx
According to the DEA, Israel's underground army in the US consisted of "around 20 units composed of between four and eight members each." More names are named: Michael Calmanovic headed up the team in Irving, Texas, while Florida was the domain of Hanan Serfaty. Legum Yochai had charge of the Miami operation. Online Intelligence also notes the Amdocs connection: it seems these "art students" "cultivated contacts with Israeli information technology companies based in the US and serving as regular suppliers to various U.S. federal agencies, such as Amdocs" and others. The Fox News series is cited, by Online Intelligence and Le Monde, and the former even provides a convenient map of the Texas chapter of the "art students" underground apparatus, complete with not only names, but arrival dates, corporate connections, when and where they were arrested, and their specific functions in the Israeli military-intelligence apparatus.
Those nasty, nasty DEA anti Semites picking on those poor innocent immigration cases.
I'm outta here for now, goober. Happy anti Semite hunting.
Pretty good job, anonymous. :)
But one more thing you could have added--One of the "art student" cells rented a house next to Mohammed Atta's in Hollywood, Florida. That's not coincidence.
http://iraq-info.1accesshost.com/schrom.html
They are not at all innocent immigration cases. They were illegally working, and selling sham art, to make a quick buck.
The ignorance some people have here as to israeli society is not surprising. To review. Every Israeli serves in the army (Arabs are allowed, but not compelled, to serve). Anyone with some brains who wants to avoid heavy combat will try to get into specialized units. The Air Force is the most elite, but a bit dangerous. Military intelligence is another elite unit, and not nearly as dangerous. Explosives ordnance removal? That's a bit more garden variety, and largely has to do with defusing bombs, which in Israel can be quite difficult when said bombs are attached to drugged out Palestinians ready to blow themselves up.
So for all the incredulity posted by some people here, the fact that you had some Israelis with military backgrounds, including intelligence units, is entirely unremarkable.
After Israelis serve in the army, those who have the means to do so will travel for a year before going back to school. So again, the fact that several 20 year olds are going around the country is not suspicious at all. And, some like many other people who come to this country, try to make a quick buck.
And now the fact that some of the women are pretty and wear tight jeans is suspicious? Gee, I guess you assume that all "regular" Israelis are deformed and have horns.
But there are some people who want to suspect a spy ring where there is none. This even though the government admitted that they DID look into it and found the whole thing to be an urban legend. But like the game of telephone, a story gets repeated enough, embellished, and it takes on a life of its own.
You can believe your paranoid fantasies if you want to. Any serious accounting of this episode showed that there was really no big deal.
Sorry, Zionist dude, but your attempted blow-off of this issue with your vague explanations like "nothing new", "a disgruntled DEA Agent" and "the government looked into it and found it to be an urban legend" does not fly. I earler asked you for WHO the DEA Agent was and you avoided the question with your usual BS. WHO (as in a name) is the "disgruntled DEA Agent"? WHERE is the report about the government investigation that found it to be an "urban legend"? SOURCES PLEASE!
Guys, look at what "r" said above:
"Anyone want to bet the Israelis will violate this agreement faster then you can say jackrabbit? And every time they do it will be an "accident", "misunderstanding" or the rouge action of some low level nobody unconnected to the government of Israel."
That's precisely the way our friend of Israel anonymous guest is proceeding.
This is a way of living for them. They cheat and deceive and distort and insist endlessly. While we dislike having to call them to task, they love this sport. They will wait we spend our energy and then will cravenly post a last word again. And wait smilling for our rage to surface another time.
That's why this people deservedly have been persecuted for centuries and that's why they always will be.
You're sound like a smear artist provocateur. It's been known. And if you're not, then you're an idiot.
"This is a way of living for them. They cheat and deceive and distort and insist endlessly."
But I'm not antisemitic, I'm just antizionist, really.
I am just visiting the gorilla website because the genuinely serious website http://www.jewishtribalreview.org is on suspension for the summer. Any real critic of Jewish power should just laugh at the accusation of 'anti-semite,' which really means nothing more now than 'a person Jews hate.' Those who wish to claim 'I am anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic' are, for all practical purposes, either frauds or fools or dupes. You either oppose excessive, unwarranted, and unhealthy Jewish power, or you apologize for it, or you ignore it. I don't really care about the Palestinians. I care about my country, the United States, and about the Jews' destruction of this country. Zionism is only part of that destructive equation, and certainly not the most important part. Brown vs. Board of Education would never have happened without the support of Jews. The immigration act of 1965 would never have happened without Jews pushing for it. The ongoing worldwide war against the white race is a product of Jewish legalists, Jewish think tanks, Jewish run media, Jewish managed NGOs, etc. Read Kevin MacDonald. Visit www.fpp.co.uk.
Agreed that JewishTribalReview is a special resource. There's too much there to talk about "agreeing" or "disagreeing." Just to see the whole subject of Jewishness discussed seriously for the first time can be a real mind-blower. (So much for our supposedly "free" speech.)
Even if you don't give a damn might be worth checking out just for curiosity's sake--it can't be much longer when even this is called a thought crime and wiped out.
"When Victims Rule" at the Jewish Tribal Review site is probably the best introduction to the discussion of Jewishness that you're going to find.
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/wvr.htm
"I am just visiting the gorilla website because the genuinely serious website"
"Agreed that JewishTribalReview is a special resource."
""When Victims Rule" at the Jewish Tribal Review site is probably the best introduction to the discussion of Jewishness that you're going to find."
But we're not anti-semitic, we're just anti-Zionist.
"...and then will cravenly post a last word again..."
Indeed.
By the way, regarding the antisemite label so often used in this thread:
"It is thus a misleading - and often a consciously and demagogically misleading - label." - Robert Conquest - The Dragons of Expectation - Hardcover Ed, pg 36.
I have a feeling our Zionist guest is not about to raise the level of his discussion, so I'll give it a try:
Everyone is familiar with the tired use of "anti-Semitism" to shut down criticism of Jewish groups or Israel. But there's another level on which to understand it's use: "anti-Semitism" as something actually essential to the very notion of Jewishness; as the foundation of modern Jewish identity.
This works in a couple of ways. It's underpinnings are religious: in the Torah, the sufferings of the tribe are seen as the just punishments of God. The Chosen People are carried into slavery in Babylon because they had failed to uphold the special covenant God had made with them, etc. In fact, it is these very sufferings which PROVE that they are God's Chosen People. (God apparently had no such high expectations of the Babylonians, for example.)
Today, now that most Jews are not believers in the Jewish religion, the notion of the Chosen People is harder to maintain. But the idea of an instinctive, irrational, implacable, and eternal "anti-Semitism" amongst the Gentiles still serves a similar function. Like all victimhood complexes, it convinces the sufferer that he is different from his "persecutor", that he is unique, that he is BETTER. Ultimately, it is a way of escaping responsibility for one's actions.
There is lots more to be said, and most of this stuff has been well discussed by Jews among themselves.
By the way, all this is not to say that there can be no such thing as actual prejudice against Jews. But I don't think it is the major problem we face today. In my opinion, it's much more important right now to understand the appeal of "anti-Semitism" to certain minds looking to see themselves as victims.
It's not clear to me that such a self-view is a healthy thing when held by a group with as much as power as Jews hold today.
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