Saturday, July 02, 2005

John Tierney on Problems in Iraq

Nice article on Iraq by John Tierney in the NYT.

There is a link to it and some comments by Steve Sailer here.

14 Comments:

Anonymous Joe said...

Some Arabic-Islamic background.

"Get out, you damned one" is a prayer of Muslim "exorcism" to chase out a Jinn demon from a possessed person. A Jinn demon is an evil child of Satan. Satan has good children, too, and they are also called Jinn (not demons). Jinn follow different religions and they can travel fast and far, maybe using UFO's.

Muslims believe that Jews who reject the Torah and follow the Talmud (many Israelis) are Satan's kids, Gog and Magog, the Khazars. These are demon Jinn souls in human bodies. A human-Jinn hybrid.

Saddam is hinting already in the title to Israeli contractors (50,000-100,000, many are IDF) involved in the invasion and the Israeli will behind it.

7/02/2005 06:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Muslims believe that Jews who reject the Torah and follow the Talmud (many Israelis) are Satan's kids, Gog and Magog, the Khazars."

Wow, yet more misinformation on Jews.

No one who follows Talmud rejects the Torah. The Talmud is composed of an oral Torah and its commentaries.

As for the stuff on Jinn, etc, we have reached the level of the truly silly at "gorilla in the room."

7/05/2005 11:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Jerusalem Post is quoting Dr. Jerome Corsi on Iran. Yes, the Swiftboar Liar for Lies Dr. Corsi. Hilarious.

Dr. Jerome Corsi, author of Atomic Iran, focused on the strategic implications of Iranian nuclear power for the US and the international community.

Addressing American strategic concerns, he told the forum that "the technical problems of sneaking a bomb into the US are solved when a state is making the bomb."

Yeah, that's it. The Iranians want to sneak a bomb into the US. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Oooooo. Scary. Scary.

http://tinyurl.com/7vfl2

Wonder how much Corsi's retaines is costing AIPAC.

7/06/2005 09:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting story from the Guardian about the influence that Laurie Milroie and her crackpot theories abut Saddam Hussein have on Administration policy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1254072,00.html

7/06/2005 10:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More on Swift Boat Liar Dr. Corsi and his admirers here,

http://tinyurl.com/dk

Surrounding Corsi at his walk were three dozen Los Angeles Iranian dissidents and pro-monarchists interviewed by an Orthodox Jewish journalist and by the CIA-backed Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Farda.

[snip]

The former head of Mossad's foreign intelligence division, Uzi Arad, told Worldnetdaily.com: "Support of Iranian opposition by the international community could be an effective way to handle the current regime" and that "its stability can be greatly reduced by the people themselves." Pro-Israel lobbyist Michael Ledeen wrote for the neo-conservative American Enterprise Institute, "Mr Bush is correct that we should actively help the brave Iranians who are leading demonstrations against the regime ..."

Israel's Student Solidarity Movement and The Jewish Agency recently staged protests at Iranian embassies worldwide. The Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz reported the "AIPAC [American Israel Political Action Committee] spurring Congress to pass a sanctions bill against Iran". AIPAC is also pressuring the US to support the Iranian Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK) for use against Iran's mullahs.

MEK has been legally designated a terrorist organization since 1997 for killing US citizens, for its role in the 1979 seizure of the US Embassy in Tehran and for attacking coalition troops in Iraq. Human Rights Watch recently condemned them for use of torture, bombings and assassinations. Nevertheless, 150 congressmen have petitioned Bush to remove them from the terrorism list, and several lawmakers spoke at their 2005 convention in Washington, DC.

Hey, MEK may be terrorists, but they're Richard Perle's terrorists. Besides, they went after Americans. Doesn't count.

7/06/2005 11:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Sailer is defaming Arabs with such garbage as "inbreeding." And what is wrong with extended family? How does that clash with civil society? Muslims created the first federal republic in Medina.

The Talmud interprets the Torah away and introduces a racist genocidal mythology of laws. I met a few rabbis who don't know a thing about it and who don't like it. Those rabbis who know the Talmud don't want to talk to me about it.

The Talmud is the reason why even "liberal" Jews are against a quick withdrawal from Iraq and for the division of Iraq. It's supposedly good for Israel and that's all that matters.

7/06/2005 06:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Talmud interprets the Torah away and introduces a racist genocidal mythology of laws.

That's common Talmud defamation. The Talmud is both a supplement and an interpreation of the Torah. It contains thousands of pages, so there are bound to be some people who have an interpretation which may offend someone else's sensibilities. Overall though, it is a remarkably humane document, especially when considered in the context of its time.

"I met a few rabbis who don't know a thing about it and who don't like it. Those rabbis who know the Talmud don't want to talk to me about it."

I'm not sure how someone who doesn't know a thing about it could not like it. All rabbis, even if they are reform, have to study Talmud, although its importance among the different branches of Judaism varies. If someone didn't want to talk to you about it, perhaps it's because they realized that you are coming to it with clearly hostile agenda.

"The Talmud is the reason why even "liberal" Jews are against a quick withdrawal from Iraq and for the division of Iraq. It's supposedly good for Israel and that's all that matters."

The Talmud has nothing to say about Iraq or the modern state of Israel. It is a remarkably advanced and intelligent set of laws for its time, and from that both Jews and non-Jews can draw inspiration. But it is not codified into positive state law, like some Muslim countries implement sharia.

Next time, learn a bit before you speak. Perhaps if you visited sites other than jewishtribalreview you would be a bit more informed.

But Joe, we know you're not antisemitic, you're just antizionist.

7/07/2005 06:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just curious, how long before you guys pin this morning's terror attack in London on the Mossad?

7/07/2005 08:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Overall though, it is a remarkably humane document, especially when considered in the context of its time."

I have to say that this is not the impression I (or many others) have gotten from reading it. It is also not the impression one gets from noticing the way the Jewish community always steers clear of ever discussing it.

And what's this bit about the "context of its time"? You wouldn't by any chance be implying that its hatred, racism, and xenophobia are all just a response to that age-old excuse--Gentile "anti-Semitism"?

"The Talmud has nothing to say about Iraq or the modern state of Israel."

No, but (as you know) it does have plenty to say about how Jews should act toward non-Jews, and what priority they should place on their own self-interest.

Tribalism is not consistent with what Gentiles take to be universal values.

7/07/2005 09:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most likely, you have never read the Talmud. You have read excerpts quoted by Israel Shahak or someone else who wrenches quotes out of context in order to portray observant Jews as hateful or xenophobic.

As for the rest of your post. It's funny. You would think that there were 1 billion or 2 billion Jews that had maintained hegemony in dozens or countries, that these Jews had partook in Crusades to conquer as much as the world as possible. You would think that they were trying to destroy the one non-Jewish state in all of the world, which occupies a sliver of land in which they otherwise have complete domination and hegemony. You would think that it was a Jewish leader who rounded up one third of the world's Christians and exterminated them. You would think that 19 deranged Jews flew four airplanes into American buildings, killing thousands of people in one day. And you would think that more Jews just this morning set off bombs on the London Underground in another act of indiscriminate mass murder.

Even if your racist defamation of Jews and Jewish texts (we're well beyond "Zionism" here) were COMPLETELY TRUE, you would have to wonder about your obsession, especially since a hell of a lot more misery and atrocities has been committed in the name of the other 2 "universal" Abrahamic religions.

7/07/2005 10:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You would think that there were 1 billion or 2 billion Jews that had maintained hegemony ...
blah blah blah
... And you would think that more Jews just this morning set off bombs on the London Underground"

You got all that from the observation that Jewishness (unlike Christianity and Islam) is a closed, tribally-based religion? Lighten up man, and spend some of that energy examining your beliefs.

Jewishness is, after all, a choice--not an infliction.

And as for my "obsession," it might make more sense to you once you consider that 9/11, Iraq, Madrid, London etc. etc. etc. are all part of the price the world is paying for the Jewish project in Palestine.

7/07/2005 11:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You got all that from the observation that Jewishness (unlike Christianity and Islam) is a closed, tribally-based religion? Lighten up man, and spend some of that energy examining your beliefs."

Incorrect, anyone who wishes to convert to Judaism may do so. It simply isn't encouraged or forced, like Christianity or Islam.

"And as for my "obsession," it might make more sense to you once you consider that 9/11, Iraq, Madrid, London etc. etc. etc. are all part of the price the world is paying for the Jewish project in Palestine."

More accurately, we are paying the price for Arab/Muslim desire for complete hegemony over the middle east, and most likely beyond. If islamofacists wiped out Israel, there's no reason to think they'd stop there.

Anyway, I'm curious about Joe's original comment. Where are these UFOs that Jinns travel in, anyway?

7/07/2005 12:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Incorrect, anyone who wishes to convert to Judaism may do so. It simply isn't encouraged or forced ... ."

Yes, of course. But odd that it isn't encouraged, isn't it? :)

"More accurately, we are paying the price for Arab/Muslim desire for complete hegemony over the middle east, and most likely beyond. If islamofacists wiped out Israel, there's no reason to think they'd stop there."

You're a wacko; I'm outa here.

7/07/2005 12:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Yes, of course. But odd that it isn't encouraged, isn't it? :)"

Not at all. Judaism recognizes that it does not have an exclusive monopoly on truth. That all people have a place in the world to come, and that there is no need to demand that non-Jews partake in a covenant with G-d that can be incredibly demanding. Why force someone to follow 613 commandments when they don't need to?

It should be noted that, at times in history, some Jews DID proselytize. This quickly came to an end because Christian and Muslim communities declared such activities to be capital crimes.

It figures that, you would find a way to blame the Jews for the fact that they don't proselytize.

Don't worry, we know you're not antisemitic. You're just antizionist.

7/07/2005 12:38:00 PM  

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