Sunday, November 06, 2005

Hypocrisy

Abe Foxman thinks the US is getting a little too christian for his tastes.

ADL's Foxman warns of efforts to 'Christianize America'

NEW YORK - Institutionalized Christianity in the U.S. has grown so extremist that it poses a tangible danger to the principle of separation of church and state and threatens to undermine the religious tolerance that characterizes the country, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, Abraham Foxman, warned in his address to the League's national commission, meeting in New York City over the weekend.

"Today we face a better financed, more sophisticated, coordinated, unified, energized and organized coalition of groups in opposition to our policy positions on church-state separation than ever before. Their goal is to implement their Christian worldview. To Christianize America. To save us!" he said.

Foxman proceeded to describe the process and to name names: "Major players include Focus On Family. Alliance Defense Fund, the American Family Association, Family Research Council and more. They and other groups have established new organizations and church-based networks, and built infrastructure throughout the country designed to promote traditional Christian values."


Abe is a known Zionist. He obviously believes the idea of a Jewish state is ok, so in the abstract he does not believe that a state with religious basis is a bad idea. It is just the US that can't tolerate religious groups influencing politics.

The constitution has was interpreted in the 1960s to forbid states from religious demonstrations (they "found" this prohibition more that 175 years after the document was written), but if people want to fight or change this, Abe shouldn't have a problem? He clearly believes a religious state is both moral and desirable, doesn't he?

Link

17 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Free Republic crowd (Freepers) are up in arms about Foxman's statements. Is it too much to hope that the far right wing in this country realizes that Isarel is NOT our friend?

Yes.

Americans have been snowed by the Holocaust industry, and the Freepers, while pissed off at Foxman, still believe that only through support of Israel, a country that has betrayed us countless times, will the Rapture come.

Well, one thing's for sure, the far right wish for Armedgeddon is just around the corner.

AMERICA WAKE THE F- UP!!!! CALL ALL POLITICIANS AND DEMAND A DIVORCE FROM ISRAEL -- NO WAR ON IRAN, NO WAR ON SYRIA.

Do it tomorrow or your children might be drafted before you even have time to regret your inaction.

11/06/2005 01:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So now you are with the Christian Right! Grow up. You can't let your views on Palestine force you into bed with every Jew-hater on the planet. This is NOT a Christian country. One of the key differences we have with a theocracy like Israel is that we are no more a Christian state than a Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu one.
Foxman is right. Get all religion out of the public square. Let's home that a secular Palestine will be set up a long side a secular Israel. Organized religion sucks. All of them. Long live James Madison, Ben Franklin, Abe Lincoln and George Washington who would spit if they saw what so-called Christians like GW Bush are doing to this country.

11/07/2005 09:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Abe Foxman ought to be encouraged. Speak up, Abe!

11/07/2005 06:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This is NOT a Christian country."

Well, it is in the sense that the fundamental culture is Christian, but you probably mean that it is not a religiously-defined country in the same way that Israel is.

"Get all religion out of the public square."

I'm a secularist like you, but Christianity does not frighten me so much. I think we can afford to tolerate quite a bit more religion in the public square without risk of becoming a theocracy. Democracy only means expressing values that have passed the test of the majority, not avoiding all expression of values because someone somewhere might be offended.

Don't forget, despite all we hear about the so-called Christian-Zionists, Christians as a whole were a voice against the insanity of this war, when there weren't many brave enough to speak out.

11/08/2005 08:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My response to previous response. According to the polls, Jews are the segment of the population most opposed to the war. 79% voted for Kerry. Jews and African-Americans were the only segments of the population to go overwhelmingly for Mc Govern! So don't mistake treacherous neocons for Jews. The fact that the neocons are Jews does not mean that Jews are neocons.

11/08/2005 09:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The fact that the neocons are Jews does not mean that Jews are neocons."

That's true, but for you to say--

"Jews are the segment of the population most opposed to the war."

means you've either been asleep, or are desperately trying to bullshit us. American Jews are virtually unanimous in their support for Zionism. Israel comes first. (Did you forget that Kerry was FOR the war? Any Democrats you can think of that are opposing it? Check out who was promoting it in the newspapers during 2002.)

11/08/2005 05:23:00 PM  
Anonymous David said...

Of all the world's major religions, Jews joined the Southern Baptists as the only two who did not condemn this war.

Anonymous 9:54 has some serious chutzpah. :)

11/08/2005 05:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JEWS are the group most opposed to the war. We are not spoken for by our undemocratic organizations or treasonous neocons. I'm talking about actual people.

Iraq War Leads Jewish Voters To Kerry, Poll Finds

By Alan Cooperman
WASHINGTON POST
Wednesday, September 22, 2004; Page A09

Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) is gaining support among Jewish voters as growing numbers disapprove of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, according to a poll commissioned by the American Jewish Committee.

If the election were held today, 69 percent of Jewish voters would support Kerry, 24 percent would back Bush and 3 percent would give their votes to Ralph Nader, the survey found. That's an increase of 10 percentage points for Kerry since December, when the previous AJC poll showed him with 59 percent of the Jewish vote.
spacer
2004 Campaign

The nationwide telephone poll of 1,000 Jewish voters was conducted Aug. 18 to Sept. 1 and had a margin of error of plus or minus three percentage points.

Although Jews make up only about 2 percent of the U.S. population, they are a significant group in some battlegrounds, such as Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, and a major fundraising base for Democratic candidates.

The poll did not ask why voters support Bush or Kerry. But some of its findings suggest that the rising support for Kerry is connected to the war in Iraq, according to David A. Harris, executive director of the nonpartisan AJC. The survey found that 66 percent of U.S. Jews disapprove of the war, up from 54 percent in December; 57 percent think the threat of terrorism against the United States has increased as a result of the war.

"The president has not made any inroads among the middle-of-the-road Jewish voters, probably because, on issues like the war, abortion, stem cell research, gay rights, gun control and church-state issues, he has stuck with his most loyal conservative constituency and has not tacked toward the center," Harris said.

11/09/2005 08:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kerry penned a commentary in the Jewish US magazine The Forward in August of 2004 in which he pledged that US support of Israel would never waver under him as President.

Never forget that Kerry's real last name is Kohn, a variation of Cohen. Wes Clark's real last name is Kahane, another various of Cohen.

Kerry also promised to add more troops to Iraq.

Democrats are delusional, their candidates are even more in hock to Israel, if that is possible -- Bill Clinton just told an Israeli audience that Hillary will be a good President for Israel -- not a good ISRAELI president, mind you, but a good US president for Israel.

Wonder if Bill told China the same thing? Nigeria? Sri Lanka?

Doubt it...

And in terms of Jews being opposed to the war, many are, but the architects of the Iraq invasion were Jews primarily.

Doug Feith, Son of the Likud, might be investigated by the US government itself -- perhaps there are American patriots in our government, people whose first allegiance is not to a foreign country.

11/09/2005 09:50:00 AM  
Anonymous David said...

Anon 8:43, if your point is that more American Jews are Democrats than Republicans, then I agree with you. (It is well known that more than half of all Democrat campaign contributions come from Jewish sources.) I would even agree with you that leaders of the Jewish denominations do not necessarily speak for their entire congregations. (But it is striking, you must admit, that almost ALL other religious leaders on this planet condemned this war and the notion of "preemptive attack." It's not as if Jewish religious leaders are known for keeping silent on political issues.)

But you are seriously misleading folks by implying that American Jews as a whole were against this Iraq adventure. If 69% would have voted for a Kerry after he had stood up to AIPAC and called for an America-first policy in the Mideast, then you would have a point. But he didn't. He bent over for the lobby even more than Bush did, and you know it. In the debates, he promised to fight the same war, but just fight it "better."

And BTW, it's very easy to oppose the invasion now--now that the damage has been done and we're entangled in a war with Israel's enemies. But ask yourself how many Jewish voices did you hear opposing the war in 2002? All those "liberal" Jewish columnists (like Thomas Friedman) that you'd think would oppose the Republicans just on partisan grounds? Hell no, suddenly they could find all sorts of reasons for going along with the neocons.!

Finally, just speak to American Jews--listen to what Zionism means to them.

11/09/2005 10:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man, if anyone could convince me that being anti-Israel makes one an anti-semite, this board will.
No wonder the Jews need Israel. You people would stuff them all in ovens and proclaim your humanity.
I didn't know people like you were still around.
Signing off now. Hum the "Horst Wessel Song" for me.

11/09/2005 04:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So long. (Good try, but no dice.)

11/09/2005 06:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Man, if anyone could convince me that being anti-Israel makes one an anti-semite, this board will."

Why do I suspect he was convinced of that before he ever got here? :)


"No wonder the Jews need Israel."

Just don't stick us with the price for it.

11/09/2005 07:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm married to a Jew, so I guess I sleep with * the enemy* every night.

Let's say we have the same discussion about any other country -- let's say we talk about El Salvador's spies in the Pentagon and the Bush administration, as well as Clinton and Pelosi addressing the American El Salvador Public Affairs Committee, and Clinton and Pelosis promise to make sure that the Bush administration and/or theirs invade Costa Rica to protect El Salvador you would say I was crazy, right?

It's only because Israel is such a threat to America and our whores of congresspeople know it that the topic of Israel is off limits. But our children will die in Israe's wars. WORD.

11/10/2005 04:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you sure you're using the colloquialism "word" correctly? I assume you're trying to be satirical, but your post just makes no sense.

And why do you call your wife your "enemy"? Is she not looking out for your best interests?

11/10/2005 05:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

*Word* is what the kids use to say that it's going to happen.

And when I said "sleeping with the enemy" that was sarcasm. I love my husband, and because I am married to a Jew whom I love, no one can accuse me of being an "anti-semite." Well, they can but I will take bets my husband would disagree.

He gets more disturbed about Israel's actions than I do, he thinks Israel is ruining the world for anyone of Jewish descent. WORD ;-)

11/12/2005 11:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Geez, talk about a judeocentric worldview! I don't mean to be critical, but most people would probably think of someone else as the chief victims of Zionism. ;)

11/12/2005 05:48:00 PM  

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