More of the Same
I don't want to make this a blog about Israel, but when I see material that is interesting I feel I should post it.
From Gideon Levy in Haaretz:
I don't believe most American Jews, let alone your average American, understand what is going on Israel. At least I hope they don't know about it.
I myself never thought about Israel much before 9/11. I imagine it is the same for many others.
Haaretz
From Gideon Levy in Haaretz:
About 500 Palestinian families once lived here; now barely 50 are left. What is going on here, far from the public eye, isn't just a cruel 'transfer,' but a reign of terror imposed by the settlers on the handful of residents who haven't left yet. This is where they built a settler stronghold that grew to frightening proportions, a multi-story building constructed with state sponsorship, surrounded now by a virtual ghost town, save for the small group of residents still clinging to their homes despite all the horror visited upon them by these violent lords of the land, these unwanted neighbors.
[...]
He shows his guests a videotape filmed here four months ago. You won't see it on any of the Israeli television stations: The images are those of a pogrom. Here a row of schoolgirls from the Cordoba elementary school is returning home, young girls dressed in the same school uniform, while young settlers - female ones in particular - wait in ambush for them every day to violently attack them. You see the schoolgirls fleeing, and the settler girls kicking them and throwing stones and garbage at them. The soldiers watch the scene with bored expressions, though one can see them smile sometimes.
Now the mini-pogrom arrives at the home of Dr. Taysir Zehadi. Hundreds of settlers in white Shabbat shirts, as befitting the festive occasion, break into his house and wreak havoc and terror. The desperate doctor tries to call for help on the telephone as hundreds of settlers close in on the house. Finally, they break down the gate and burst inside. Soldiers from the Nahal Brigade and a company of Border Police look on without lifting a finger. Now the settlers are inside, wrecking whatever they can get their hands on, as the doctor watches and hoarsely describes the mayhem as he speaks into the telephone receiver. "Everything is destroyed," he says quietly from inside his home, which a gate and iron gratings couldn't protect.
After the settlers vent their anger in the doctor's house, they leave, smiling, on the way to the next target. No one stops them. Except for the iron door of neighbor Ayoub Awawi. The door doesn't give in to them and they remain outside. Meanwhile, the camera shows the destruction in the doctor's home: From the solar panels on the roof to the potted plants in the living room, everything is smashed and shattered.
I don't believe most American Jews, let alone your average American, understand what is going on Israel. At least I hope they don't know about it.
I myself never thought about Israel much before 9/11. I imagine it is the same for many others.
Haaretz
posted by Brian at 2:41 PM
20 Comments:
I remember reading a similar poignant peace by USA Today reporter Jack Kelley four years ago. Where he talked of the evil Hebwon settwers bwutalizing the poor opwessed Pawestinians. It really made me feel terrible.
A few years later, Kelley was fired from USA today. It turned out that he completely fabricated the story, as well as several others.
Gideon Levy is widely known to exaggerate and, in a pinch, just make crap up.
Having said that, the situation in Hebron, with the populations literally entwined within one another, is untenable. Someone has to go, and realistically it will probably be the Jews.
But the situation is not nearly as one sided as the Levy article suggests. Jews have been ambushed and shot on their way back from worship services. The sides clearly don't get along. But Levy's complete demonization of the Jews has been tried before, until it was exposed as a lie.
Brian, how can you say you don't want this blog to be about Israel? It's what you made it about on day 1!
"But the situation is not nearly as one sided as the Levy article suggests."
If you say so. But remember that only one of the "sides" is funded and shielded from near-universal condemnation by the U.S. government. And only one is armed with U.S. weaponry. Only one is claiming legitimacy as a democracy which shares American values. So perhaps it is appropriate that it receive a little extra scrutiny, particularly in a blog which is devoted to the critiquing Israel's excess influence over American policy.
Here's a little slide show to look at while you're thinking about that--
http://www.cpt.org/gallery/slideshow.php?set_albumName=album03
"Settler Graffiti in Hebron"
you have watched videoes which is importent dokomentation. I would like to see the video. How ?
"But remember that only one of the "sides" is funded and shielded from near-universal condemnation by the U.S. government."
And which has also been pressured by the U.S. government to give up territory for peace (as it should).
The other side has numerous allies in its Arab neighbors, sympathy from Christian Europe, and it receives more aid per capita than any other population.
"Only one is claiming legitimacy as a democracy which shares American values."
So? The Palestinians and their brethren can just say. "We oppress the crap out of everyone. We mistreat minorities. We want an Islamic Caliphate." So that makes it ok?
"particularly in a blog which is devoted to the critiquing Israel's excess influence over American policy."
This reminds me of A. Lawrence Lowell, the president of Harvard, justifying his exclusionary quotas against Jews. The explanation was that Jews would cheat. When it was pointed out to him that everyone else cheated as well, he said: "You're changing the subject. We're talking about Jews."
And that's what it's ultimately about. You don't care about anything else, because you're talking about jews.
"And that's what it's ultimately about. You don't care about anything else, because you're talking about jews."
You know I have no idea what the connection is between my comment and your anecdote about A. Lawrence Lowell? But I'll tell you one thing which does occur to me right now: you don't just disagree with the people here, but you seem to genuinely hate them.
That's your right of course. But are you sure it's an appropriate response to what are, after all, just pixels on a screen to you?
And by the way, where does one find items like that A. Lawrence Lowell story? Who the heck has ever even heard of him? What is there, some kind of "Golden Treasury of Anti-Semitic Comments", that you dip into whenever you feel your moral indignation slipping?
.....A few years later, Kelley was fired from USA today.
Ahh, and this interesting anecdote, where Kelly was fired by for angering his Jewish bosses and co-workers and for angering Jewish readership and advertising of USAT, and not for "making stuff up" (LOL, why would the US media fire anyone for that?) says exactly what about Jewish domination of the US media, anon? You sure you want to spill the beans about this stuff, anon?
Gideon Levy is widely known to exaggerate and, in a pinch, just make crap up.
Well gosh that is the first I have heard of this. Anyway, his competition (Jewish journalists writing from a more pro-Israel perspective) couldn't possibly ever "exaggerate or make stuff up", huh? The situation in Hebron has been amply demonstrated for some time now, and Levy's account has been backed up by so many other reports that the truth of the situation is no longer in doubt.
But the situation is not nearly as one sided as the Levy article suggests. Jews have been ambushed and shot on their way back from worship services.
Glad to hear it. Normally I say spare the kids, but now I won't even say that, as it looks like even the settler kids are combatants. So the Palestinians are retaliating against their oppressors. Personally, I feel that every adult settler (and apparently a lot of the kids too) in Hebron is a military target, and can justifiably be killed or wounded by Palestinian freedom fighters. The American Indians weren't very nice to the invaders here either. In 1812, Am Indian freedom fighters had killed and thrown out every single white invader from Ohio. An excellent model!
The sides clearly don't get along.
Nice whitewash Anon! It's the mid-30's in Germany and Kristallnact has just occurred. But hey, Anon, takes 2 to tango, no? And after all, the Jews started it by first declaring a worldwide boycott on the Germans, right? And all those Jewish judges in Germany (50%) abusing so many poor German patriots...ah well, the 2 sides just don't get along, eh, anon? No moralizing or any of that, just 2 equals sparring away like children.
Brian, how can you say you don't want this blog to be about Israel? It's what you made it about on day 1!
So? What's up with that? Hell, he's gotta write about something.
Or is this another one of those "only Jews can criticize other Jews" ghetto holdovers, anon?
....you don't just disagree with the people here, but you seem to genuinely hate them.
Course he does, it's classical Jewish behavior.
But are you sure it's an appropriate response to what are, after all, just pixels on a screen to you?
Ahh, but as a stereotypical Jewish ethnic activist, those words are anything but that. You need to understand the Jews. The original "you're either with us or against us" folks. With most Jews, you are either a 100% supporter of the Jews, or, if you criticize them at all, you're just like those ppl who put them in gas chambers. Black-white, Manichean, no grey area. It seems crazy, but that's just the way they are. It's kept em going for 2000 years, but it doesn't do much popularity-wise.
What is there, some kind of "Golden Treasury of Anti-Semitic Comments", that you dip into whenever you feel your moral indignation slipping?
Yep, I am afraid so. More classic Jewish behavior. Jewish obsession with anti-Semitism goes far beyond the normal, and clearly into the pathological. But it also unifies them and prevents assimilation.
And that's what it's ultimately about. You don't care about anything else, because you're talking about jews.
Ahh, yes, anon, you are calling David an anti-Semite. How original! C'mon, try something new Anon, that's already been done like 50 million times before.
Here are the beans. Kelley was fired because he was found to have made up numerous stories (not just those critical of Israel), and because he admitted to conspiring to thwart an investigation into the veracity of his reports.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-03-18-2004-03-18_kelleymain_x.htm
USA today is owned by Gannett, Inc. It is not "Jewish Owned" but is a publicly traded company on the New York Stock Exchange. The board of directors consists of:
Douglas H. McCorkindale (Chair)
Craig A. Dubow (President and CEO)
Louis D. Boccardi
James A. Johnson
Duncan M. McFarland
Stephen P. Munn
Donna E. Shalala
Solomon D. Trujillo
Karen Hastie Williams
Let me guess, even though they are not Jewish, they are secretly controlled by the elders of Zion.
But I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who says it's ok to kill Jewish kids living in Hebron (or anywhere in the West Bank).
But I forgot. You're not antisemitic, you're just antizionist
So Brian, are you proud to have Robert Lindsay as a link?
"Yep, I am afraid so. More classic Jewish behavior. Jewish obsession with anti-Semitism goes far beyond the normal, and clearly into the pathological. But it also unifies them and prevents assimilation."
Funny, because the Jewish community in the United States is in fact one of the most successfully assimilated (although then you will switch your argument to "Jewish control" over everything).
Vis a vis me, your comment is hysterical. As I noted in the other thread, I am a participant in an interfaith marriage as well as a product of one.
Fine, Kelly was fired for due cause. But once again you are lying about Israel, as almost all Zionist Jews do. You are dissembling. Fact is, the atrocities of the Hebron settlers have been well documented in a myriad of articles, not just by the unfortunate Mr. Kelly. This is how you play your logical fallacy game here, a game at which the Jews excel like no other tribe on Earth (notice all the Jewish lawyers and politicians and pundits). The fact that one journalist who wrote about Hebron was found to make stuff up (When he didn't even need to!) is deviously used by you to try to discredit all journalistic reports on Hebron! LOL, take it to your Logic 100 teacher, trickster.
I don't know what USA Today's staff looks like. I'm aware the owner is a Gentile. Editorial staffs of most US papers are very heavily Jewish. We don't know what the editorial and journalist ranks of USA Today look like; perhaps it is exceptional.
The fact that US journalism is very heavily Jewish, from ownership on down to cub reporters, has been amply demonstrated by many quality sources, including noted Jewish authors. William Safire himself noted that nearly the entire editorial board of the NY Times was Jewish in the 70's. So clearly it's not antisemitic to point out such facts, as it says nothing bad about Jews anyway (Hell, perhaps Jewish domination of US media is a GOOD thing). But even if USA Today is anomalous on its board, there is the question of Jewish advertisers and readers.
Not that it does any good with folks like you (as I'm already convicted in your Jewish Kangaroo Court), but I generally think that the Protocols is a fraud. Apparently it's a madeup story by the Czarist secret police to rouse antiSemitism amongst the masses. I'm aware some say it's real, and now and again I wonder a bit, but mostly I think it's fake. And I won't say "but the Protocols story is true anyway, even if it's a forgery". I've read the Protocols, and I don't think even the most devious members of the world Jewish elite plot like that. With one exception: the part in the Protocols where it says they want to take over the world's media.
The Jewish elite has the power and money to dream of such things, and I believe that some of them do. OTOH, the Jews have not been able to take over much world media, not that the Sabans and Murdochs wouldn't like to try.
But like I said, no point having discussions with the likes of you, because you are basically deepl ydishonest, and everyone that gets labeled "enemy" by you folks are all already convicted.
I note one more of your classic tricks: labeling a critic an anti-Semite and then demanding that everyone else distance themselves from them on pain of guilt by association. Guilt by association is another one of your obsessions, a game you use to bully your critics into line.
In the end, fact is, it's not folks like Brian and I that cause anti-Semitism, it's simply caused by the behavior of Jews like you, Anon. You relish having enemies, so you deliberately create as many enemies as possible. Then you take the baffled enemies you have created, and try to make them into the most dangerous, violent, homicidal or genocidal enemies as possible. Why do the Jews do this? Who knows? It's one of the mysteries of the Jews.
Clearly Brian can make a hyperlink on his blog to anyone he wants to. Last time I checked, 100's of Jewish blogs had links to Nazis, racists and white supremacists.
Normally I make exceptions for the children of the despicable Jewish invaders in the Territories. However, in this case, these particular Jew-Nazi kids deserve to be killed for the way they are treating the Palestinians there. They are clearly moving into the role of combatant with their violent behavior. If they don't wanna die, they should cut it the f*** out.
One more thing: I never have this argument "Am I or am I not an anti-Semite?" with any Jew or Judeophile, ever. This is another mysterious Jewish habit. The habit of demanding that the accused debate "Are you or are you not an anti-Semite"? I have seen 100's of innocent Gentiles twisted over flames by sadistic Jews with this game, a game which Jews never tire of, a "discussion" that can go on for days or weeks. It's a rigged discussion, as there is no way to prove to Jews that you are not an anti-Semite, once they tag you as one. As if it matters anyway...
Gee, Robert, why do some consider you an antisemite? Let's see...
"Ahh, and this interesting anecdote, where Kelly was fired by for angering his Jewish bosses and co-workers and for angering Jewish readership and advertising of USAT,"
"Anyway, his competition (Jewish journalists writing from a more pro-Israel perspective)"
"Normally I say spare the kids, but now I won't even say that, as it looks like even the settler kids are combatants."
"Course he does, it's classical Jewish behavior."
"Ahh, but as a stereotypical Jewish ethnic activist, those words are anything but that. You need to understand the Jews. The original "you're either with us or against us" folks. With most Jews, you are either a 100% supporter of the Jews, or, if you criticize them at all, you're just like those ppl who put them in gas chambers. "
"Yep, I am afraid so. More classic Jewish behavior. Jewish obsession with anti-Semitism goes far beyond the normal, and clearly into the pathological. But it also unifies them and prevents assimilation."
"But once again you are lying about Israel, as almost all Zionist Jews do."
"The fact that US journalism is very heavily Jewish, from ownership on down to cub reporters, has been amply demonstrated by many quality sources, including noted Jewish authors."
"I don't think even the most devious members of the world Jewish elite plot like that. With one exception: the part in the Protocols where it says they want to take over the world's media."
"The Jewish elite has the power and money to dream of such things, and I believe that some of them do. OTOH, the Jews have not been able to take over much world media, not that the Sabans and Murdochs wouldn't like to try."
"In the end, fact is, it's not folks like Brian and I that cause anti-Semitism, it's simply caused by the behavior of Jews like you, Anon. You relish having enemies, so you deliberately create as many enemies as possible. Then you take the baffled enemies you have created, and try to make them into the most dangerous, violent, homicidal or genocidal enemies as possible. Why do the Jews do this? Who knows? It's one of the mysteries of the Jews."
"But once again you are lying about Israel, as almost all Zionist Jews do."
"This is how you play your logical fallacy game here, a game at which the Jews excel like no other tribe on Earth (notice all the Jewish lawyers and politicians and pundits)."
Wow, and that's just one day. Congratulations Brian, I think you've found a real winner here. He makes David of "Jewbot" fame look tame.
Robert, is the author of this column your wife?
"I Can't Stand It When Jews Talk During Movies"
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34094
On Hebron: from PRO-Israel website
HEBRON HORRORS
By MJ Rosenberg
Israel Policy Forum
February 11, 2005
The Sharm el-Sheikh summit was a success by almost any reckoning. But let’s not get carried away.
Even the complete end to terrorism and reprisals would not signify an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It would only free the two sides to start negotiating over the issues which produced the violence in the first place.
This reality was brought home to me during my stint as an official US observer of the January 9th Palestinian election. Our eighty-person National Democratic Institute group was broken into forty teams and then dispatched throughout the West Bank and Gaza. My partner and I were assigned to a dozen polling places in Hebron, the second largest city in the West Bank.
Hebron is a city considered holy by both Jews and Muslims because of the presence there of the Cave of Machpela, traditionally thought to be the burial place of Abraham, the patriarch of both Judaism and Islam. Predominantly Arab, Jews also lived in the city, adjacent to the tomb, until 1929 when a pogrom launched by Arab fanatics resulted in the murder of 69 Jews and the end of the Jewish presence in the city.
In 1967, following the Six Day War -- with Israel now in control of the West Bank, including Hebron -- ultra-religious Jewish nationalists pressured the Israeli government to permit Jewish settlers to reclaim, and move into, properties that had belonged to the Jewish community prior to 1929.
The government refused. It arranged for Jewish worship inside the tomb but not for civilian settlement inside the city, which it considered to be both impractical and provocative. Only a tiny group of extremists (many from outside Israel) had any interest in living inside Hebron and – in the midst of a city of 160,000 Palestinians – they would need to be defended by hundreds, if not thousands, of soldiers.
The settlers moved in anyway, establishing illegal outposts in the heart of Hebron, which have been tolerated by successive Israeli governments for 36 years. Following the Oslo agreements, the Israeli army withdrew from all Palestinian cities except Hebron, where troops remained to defend the settlers. In 1997, the Israeli army withdrew from 80% of Hebron, remaining only in an area labeled H-2 which includes the Cave of Machpela, the Casbah (Arab market) and the Jewish settlements.
Some 400 settlers live in H-2 in the midst of 30,000 Palestinians.
Last month, I visited H-2 despite being told by an Israeli friend that it is “the worst place in the West Bank.” How so? “The settlers there are religious fanatics and dedicate their lives to terrorizing the Palestinians with the goal of driving them all out. The Palestinians can’t fight back because the army won’t let them. On top of all that, the settlers hate the soldiers almost as much as they hate the Palestinians because the soldiers try to curb their activities. These soldiers are in a situation where they have to defend fanatics who routinely refer to them as Nazis.” But, he added, “so long as the settlers are there, the soldiers must remain as well. Snipers, shooting from the hills, have killed Jews [including a two year old, Shalhevet Pass] and, so the soldiers need to be there, no matter how much they hate it.” I walked into the heart of H-2 following a short inquisition by an IDF soldier. My first stop was the Ibrahami Mosque, which encompasses the Tomb of the Patriarchs. As I walked down the steps toward the mosque, a young Palestinian made the point of informing me that I was following the same route Jewish zealot Baruch Goldstein took when, in February 1994, he burst into the mosque and shot dead 29 Muslims at prayer.
Goldstein is a hero to the Hebron settlers. His burial place (in a tourist park named after Meir Kahane) was turned into a shrine where settlers annually celebrate Goldstein’s murder spree with parties and games. (In 2004, police arrested some of them for holding an illegal celebration of both the Goldstein murders and the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin). For Palestinians, of course, the Goldstein massacre is a symbol of the ultimate threat.
I left the mosque and walked through the mostly deserted Casbah toward the settlers’ neighborhood. There wasn’t much to see, just settlers strutting around with rifles and a few Arabs trying to sell their wares in what was once a thriving market and is now mostly abandoned. And there is the graffiti in English and Hebrew promising death to all Palestinians.
But the most striking thing is the steel mesh screens (see photo) that the Arabs have installed just above the heads of pedestrians to protect them from the garbage and excrement routinely dumped by the settlers from their second floor windows. The screens catch all sorts of disgusting stuff and lethal objects like cinder blocks, although liquid debris does make its way to the ground or on the heads of anyone below.
It’s an appalling sight. Imagine looking up and seeing and smelling the foulest debris just above your head, stopped only by mesh. But then everything about H-2 is appalling, including the fact that Israeli soldiers are forced to serve there.
Last summer a group of 70 soldiers who had served in Hebron created a photographic and video exhibit at a Tel Aviv college about their experiences there called, “Breaking Silence.” The exhibit, which was a huge success, described from the soldiers’ point of view, the dehumanizing experience that serving there had on them. Many spoke of the fear they had – not only of the Arabs or of the Jews – but of being terribly transformed as human beings by the experience.
One soldier spoke of being frightened by the “rush” he felt from giving Arabs orders. "I was ashamed of myself the day I realized that I simply enjoy the feeling of power…Forget for a moment that I think that all these Jews are nuts and that I believe we should leave the territories. But how dare [a Palestinian] say ‘no’ to me? I am the Law! I am the Law here! “Once I was at a checkpoint, a so-called strangulation checkpoint, blocking the entrance to a village. On one side a line of cars wanting to get out, and on the other side a line of cars wanting to get in. I stood there, gesturing ‘you to do this,’ ‘you do that.’ You start playing with them, like a computer game. ‘You come here, you go there.’ You barely move, you make them obey the tip of your finger. It's a mighty feeling.”
A second soldier wrote: “The thing that…affected me emotionally…was when we had just arrived in Hebron. I was on guard duty, when suddenly, from one of the small streets, a settler girl shows up and shouts at me very urgently: ‘Soldier, soldier, come quickly, there's an Arab here who's attacking a girl.’ I got very alarmed and advanced with my weapon cocked. The scene that unfolded was of an Arab with his two children. He’s trying to protect them from another settler girl who's throwing stones at them. I blow my fuse and start screaming at her….She’s screaming back that they are Arabs and should be killed…and the father, poor guy, says, with helpless eyes, ‘We're used to it, we've been here a long time now, it's alright.’ "
A third soldier spoke of the day a group from abroad came to visit Hebron for the Jewish holidays. "One morning, a fairly big group arrived, around 15 Jews from France. They were all religious Jews. They were in a good mood, really having a great time, and I spent my entire shift following this gang of Jews around and trying to keep them from destroying the town. They just wandered around, picked up every stone they saw, and started throwing them at Arabs' windows, and overturning whatever they came across. “There's no horror story
here: they didn't catch some Arab and kill him or anything like that, but what bothered me is that maybe someone told them that this is one place in the world where a Jew can take all of his rage out on Arab people, and simply do anything. Come to this Palestinian town, and do whatever they want, and the soldiers will always be there to back them up. Because that was my job, to protect them and make sure that nothing happened to them."
Note that this soldier said that he had no “horror story” to tell, just an ordinary day for soldiers, not to mention Palestinians, in Hebron. And that is, of course, the greatest horror.
That is why Hebron is significant. In one neighborhood, in one city, on any given day, anyone can experience the occupation at its worst
-- terrible for the Palestinians and terrible for the Israelis too.
The Sharm el-Sheikh summit was a start toward a full ceasefire and the end of the Intifada. But it won’t change much in Hebron or in the rest of the West Bank either. As for Gaza, Ariel Sharon is getting out. That is if extremists in the Knesset, and settlers very much like their brethren in Hebron, let him. But a start is certainly better than the status quo.
If anyone tells you that the status quo is tolerable, just tell them about Hebron.
MJ Rosenberg is Director of Policy Analysis for Israel Policy Forum, a long time Capitol Hill staffer and former editor of AIPAC's Near East Report.
Why bother? When it gets to the point where they are calling you anti-Semite all the time (Jewish ethnic activists respond to 100% of their critics by calling them anti-Semites), the argument is simply lost. As I noted, he is trying to bait me into a game called "Are you or are you not an Anti-Semite?" I have seen this sad game played by grinning, smirking, delighted Jewish sadists (usually Jewish males - and often younger ones) many times. The poor innocent victim, deeply hurt by being called anti-Semite, feverishly tries to prove that he doesn't hate the Jews, while the Jews circle for the kill like drooling hyenas.
This game usually attracts a group of them (being bullies, they like to attack single persons in groups) who all delight in the game. Thing is, I have dealt 1000's of real anti-Semites, in life and on the net. Real Jew-haters usually don't deny it, in fact, most will admit it. So the person involved in this game is usually innocent of the charge. Weird thing is, after being brutalized like this, I think a lot of folks are going to start having negative feelings about Jews.
Ethnic activists like anon need enemies to survive, and, so it seems, oddly enough, do the Jews. While it's understandable Jews might want to know who hates them, Jewish charges of anti-Semitism seem to hit 5 innocent ppl for every real one. So the Jewish scattershot, paranoid, hysterical response here causes massive harm to innocent ppl, and probably dramatically increases anti-Semitism.
In talking to Gentiles, the one thing so many can't stand about Jews is the hair-trigger accusation of anti-Semitism. The best way for Jews to fight anti-Semitism is to quit running around yelling "YOU HATE US" at 50% of the planet.
I'd like to point out another hallmark: the list. These types *always* make lists of every little "anti-Semitic" statement you make, and they often keep them in files and whip them out over and over to beat you over the head with them. I have seen ppl obsessively confronted with these "dossiers".
If you haven't noticed, anon's behavior parallels the ADL and the Jewish Thought Police in general. Note how Jewish organizations and journalists keep "dossiers" on "suspected anti-Semitic remarks" of the critics they wish to bully into line. Remember the media's breathless repetition of silly stuff like Jesse Jackson's "hymietown", of Pat Buchanon's "amen corner", Marlon Brando's interview with Larry King, or lately, Cindy Sheehan's remarks?
I would like to point something else out. Once this pissing contest starts, there is a major effort by the Jewish activists to try to *bait the victim into making real anti-Semitic remarks* through extreme bullying and sadism.
It's kind of like this: suppose 5 or 10 young Black thugs circled a white person who is pretty much nonracist. They dance around him, moving in to quickly slap him from time to time, while sadistically taunting and baiting him into a fight. At some point, this nonracist white may respond to such abuse by screaming racist remarks at the Blacks circling him. This is what the anons want. They try to bait ppl and get them so furious at Jews that they make real anti-Semitic remarks, or start screaming kike, Jewboy, hebe, yahud, zhid. No word makes them happier than words like that.
So, really, when we become anti-Semitic, we give the anons of the world what they want. As we drift further and further into anti-Semitism, we delight them more and more.
If you have contempt for the anons of the world, as I do, I think we should not give them what they want by becoming anti-Semites. Take the high road and don't fall for the baited Jewish hook.
Most Jews in the US are not really like anon. Most are fairly indifferent to the stuff he is so charged about. Most want to get along with others and aren't going around trying to pick fights all the time.
What did the Palestinians have to do with the Holocaust? Could someone please clue me in?
I know what the pro-Israel lobbies had to do with the US invasion of Iraq -- they caused it! But again, I am trying to find some evidence of Palestinian involvement in the Holocaust (the Jewish one, or rather THE ONLY HOLOCAUST THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED EVER)
"What did the Palestinians have to do with the holocaust? Could someone please clue me in"
Oh, but Honestein the honest historian of the future jewish history will come to your aid, yes. I will be reporting this a thousand years from now so have a care some things are ahamm... achanged, lets see:
"By reading about the palestinian habit of stone throwing at jews and the discoveries of late archeologists in palestine who said every single jewish tomb had it's own carefully assembled pile of rocks and pebbles I proposed the theory that ancient jews were so smart they developed a ritual in which they collected the rocks used for stoning and left them beside the body of the fallen as forensic evidence of the crime! I sent my theory to the osp and the brilliant scientist feith XVIII demonstrated it was correct! Now we have a monstrous pile of rocks as forensic evidence for the mass killing of six billion jews. We will call this ignominious act of murder THE ROCKLOCAUST! From now on rocks will be prohibited. Of course we will try to get every single rock band sued for doing a thing offensive to the jews. And maybe, just maybe, we will put an end to that hideously named band called the rolling stones, because, well, because we cannot abide hearing mick, keith, ron and charlie sing for another thousand years...."
I see you're furious, anon, me too, but as Robert says, let's take the high road... NO! fuckowitz the bozowitz, eh!!!
And jewbot, the field of jewbotics was invented by Honestein, a future historian, not by David. Was this intentional, smearing David?
"What did the Palestinians have to do with the Holocaust? Could someone please clue me in?"
Easy enough. The Mufti of Jerusalem allied with Hitler.
Next question?
"What did the Palestinians have to do with the Holocaust? Could someone please clue me in?"
Easy enough. The Mufti of Jerusalem allied with Hitler.
This is a really sad and infamous page of Arab history. Arab rage at the Jews was due to Zionism, but still....that does not excuse allying with Nazis! The Jews never stop beating the Arabs over the heads with this awful page of history, and never will. Never, unless, until the Arabs abjectly kiss the feet of the Jews in subservience and forswear loyalty forever, which is the only way the Jews accept any apology. Since the Jews are likely to reject any Arab apologies about this, an Arab apology won't help much. Judaism doesn't believe in forgiveness, unlike Christianity - it's just "permanent war". And you wonder why the neocons came up with that "permanent war" business? Hmmm.
OTOH, Arab silence and lying about this matter is pretty terrible too. The Arabs say they are in war with Israel, so no point being truthful, and with their weaponry disadvantage they need a permanent propaganda offensive to match the Jewish one. That's understood, but I still don't like it. On the pro-Arab side, there has been a lot of dissembling about this Arab-Nazi thing, claiming it wasn't that significant, was a minor aberration, etc. In Iraq, the Arab-Nazi thing and predictable anti-Semitic pogroms that followed were blamed on the Brits (see Jews of Iraq by Niam Giladi). True, Brits played a role, but the Iraqis were allying with Nazism from the 30's. It's also true that Arabs sided with Germany due to opposition to British colonialism. All of this is true, but it doesn't whitewash the crimes.
In Iraq, for instance, the vast majority of the Jews in the 30's and even into the early 40's were still very patriotic and over 90% were anti-Zionist! I kid you not. But Arab rabblerousers roused the ppl into a pogrom called the Farhud (1941?) on this innocent population. Sadly, this pogrom created the reality that did not exist before. Previously patriotic and anti-Zionist Jews became Zionists and anti-regime and fled in waves.
Nowadays, the official Arab regimes seem to have left the Nazi crap behind while refusing to apologize for the Nazi crap in the past. Arabs don't do apology well either - is it a regionalism?
Fact is, though, the Mufti's alliance with Hitler killed approximately zero Jews in Europe's Shoah, best we can tell. So, the relationship of the Palestinians to the Holocaust is about zero, other than giving disgusting moral support.
As you can see from these comments, this matter is very complex, and not served well by Anon's sound bytes.
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